Ben Tohelanbac

Will it be a problem if I do not have a 1040 or any other proof of income?
Can I show proof of assets instead? If so, how much value would be required?

Annie

Ben Tohelanbac>>Will it be a problem if I do not have a 1040 or any other proof
of income?
Can I show proof of assets instead? If so, how much value would be required?

Annie>> I only had 1 years tax return and W-2, pay stubs for the subsidies I
get for adopting handicapped kids (non taxable) and my fiance did not get his
visa. My non taxable income WAS sufficient, but they did not take it into
consideration
I have no 'assets' like homes or fancy boats or cars, which I could
'liquidate' so as to assure my fiance would not become a public charge..
We plan on marrying this Summer and see what to do next.

Mtravelkay

Ben Tohelanbac wrote:
    > Will it be a problem if I do not have a 1040 or any other proof of income?
    > Can I show proof of assets instead? If so, how much value would be required?

If you have sufficient income to sponsor a fiance, then you should have
1040's. There are 2 times when you have to provide proof of income.
One of these is at the visa interview, the other will be when she goes
to her ajdustment of status interview. The visa interview for K-1
usually requires some proof of income. The proof required can vary by
location. Not all of them even require filing I-134. You need to find
out what the consular staff in your fiance's country require.

You will generally need rax returns for the I-864.

Why do you not have 1040's?

dave w

what embassy are you dealing with?

Ben Tohelanbac

My 1040s were in the red in the past couple of years due to a business failure.
Now like many others I find myself in a depressed economy and probably have to
settle for a low hourly wage job. My future wife is in Mexico. The
consulate is in Juarez. We are ready to be together very soon and get married.
We hope all this immigration mess will be over soon so she can get her visa
and we can get on with our lives. Just how picky will the consulate be
about this affidavit of support? I heard by more than one source that as an
alternative I would be able to provide proof of ownership of any savings and
assets and it would work. I am not sure how true this is at that consulate.
My question was never answered about this.
Actually, I find this great concern over a sponors income to be discrimination.
If my fiancee was already a US citizen, I could be a broke, unemployed bum
living under a bridge and we be able to get married with no problem. If all of
this nonsense was eliminated from the immigration process, we would not have
such ridiculous backlogs. Furthermore, a simple background check will find
that my future wife is a very intelligent person and far from being a
liability. She is able and wants to work when she comes to the US.

Mtravelkay

Ben Tohelanbac wrote:

    > My 1040s were in the red in the past couple of years due to a business failure.
    > Now like many others I find myself in a depressed economy and probably have to
    > settle for a low hourly wage job.

Being in the red is not the same as not having them. Your prewious post
seemd to ask what if you didn't have them.

My future wife is in Mexico. The
    > consulate is in Juarez. We are ready to be together very soon and get married.
    > We hope all this immigration mess will be over soon so she can get her visa
    > and we can get on with our lives. Just how picky will the consulate be
    > about this affidavit of support?

Fairly picky if you don't have an income or substantial assests.

I heard by more than one source that as an
    > alternative I would be able to provide proof of ownership of any savings and
    > assets and it would work. I am not sure how true this is at that consulate.
    > My question was never answered about this.
    > Actually, I find this great concern over a sponors income to be discrimination.
    > If my fiancee was already a US citizen, I could be a broke, unemployed bum
    > living under a bridge and we be able to get married with no problem.

While it might be a form of discrimnation, it is not discrimination
against a protect class. The same kind of argument could be made for a
condo complex not wanting a child molestor to live with them. That is
discrimination, but not discrimination against a protected class. Poor
people can legally be prevented from sponsoring an immigrant, and condo
associations can generally block child molesters from moving in.

No one is stopping you from marrying her. The goal here is for the
sponsor to prove the immigrant will not be a burden on US taxpayers.

If all of
    > this nonsense was eliminated from the immigration process, we would not have
    > such ridiculous backlogs. Furthermore, a simple background check will find
    > that my future wife is a very intelligent person and far from being a
    > liability. She is able and wants to work when she comes to the US.

We all have views on what we want the immigration process to be.
I don't think setting the minimum income required at 125 percent of
poverty level is too high.
However, this doesn't help you now. You either have to put up with the
current process or suffer the consequences.

J Moreno

Ben Tohelanbac <[email protected]> wrote:

    > My 1040s were in the red in the past couple of years due to a
    > business failure.

As I understand it (and I hope I understand correctly), they aren't
concerned about whether you owe taxes or not, or made more than you
spent -- they are interested that your *income* is sufficient to show
that you *could* have supported her.

--
J. Moreno

Annie

As I understand it (and I hope I understand correctly), they aren't
concerned about whether you owe taxes or not, or made more than you
spent -- they are interested that your *income* is sufficient to show
that you *could* have supported her.

--
J. Moreno

Annie>> And while that is true, my fiance was denied his visa on the basis of
my not having a *job* though I showed proof of income which is at least the
125% poverty level. All non taxable, and they refused to accept it at all. They
even demanded my fiance's assets, and that is not a requirement of the I-134 on
a K-1.
Sadly, the Embassies can do pretty much as they please, deny or approve at a
whim. Nothing is standardised and it seems that some make up extra rules as
they go along.

Harold

[email protected] (Ben Tohelanbac) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Will it be a problem if I do not have a 1040 or any other proof of income?
    > Can I show proof of assets instead? If so, how much value would be required?

For a non-immigrant scenario, like a K visa, using the I-134 the
requirement for current income is 100% of poverty level:

2004 HHS Poverty Guidelines
Size of Family 48 Contiguous States
1 $9,310
2 12,490
3 15,670
4 18,850
5 22,030
6 25,210
7 28,390
8 31,570
For each additional person, add
3,180

Liquid assets may be substituted at a ratio of 5 to 1. Real estate is
not a liquid asset.

It is not unreasonable not to allow you to sponsor someone to whom you
are not related and who you cannot support. We're talking a $6/hour
job here.

Harold

[email protected] (Ben Tohelanbac) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > My 1040s were in the red in the past couple of years due to a business failure.
    > Now like many others I find myself in a depressed economy and probably have to
    > settle for a low hourly wage job. My future wife is in Mexico. The
    > consulate is in Juarez. We are ready to be together very soon and get married.
    > We hope all this immigration mess will be over soon so she can get her visa
    > and we can get on with our lives. Just how picky will the consulate be
    > about this affidavit of support? I heard by more than one source that as an
    > alternative I would be able to provide proof of ownership of any savings and
    > assets and it would work. I am not sure how true this is at that consulate.
    > My question was never answered about this.
    > Actually, I find this great concern over a sponors income to be discrimination.
    > If my fiancee was already a US citizen, I could be a broke, unemployed bum
    > living under a bridge and we be able to get married with no problem. If all of
    > this nonsense was eliminated from the immigration process, we would not have
    > such ridiculous backlogs. Furthermore, a simple background check will find
    > that my future wife is a very intelligent person and far from being a
    > liability. She is able and wants to work when she comes to the US.

For non-immigrant scenarios, like K visas, using the I-134, the
requirement for current income is 100% of poverty level

2004 HHS Poverty Guidelines
Size of Family 48 Contiguous States
1 $9,310
2 12,490
3 15,670
4 18,850
5 22,030
6 25,210
7 28,390
8 31,570
For each additional person, add
3,180

Liquid assets may be substituted at a ration of $5 to $1. Real estate
is not a liquid asset.

It is not unreasonable not to allow you to sponsor someone to whom you
are not related and who you cannot support. We are talking a $6/ hour
job here.

Dtx725

I wonder if that would make a dent in the $160 BILLION plus that the US gov
dumped off to barbaric Iraq and Afghanistan. Or threaten the millions that
would be spent to have some astronauts inhabit the moon and mars. We surely
must not jeopardize that type of spending just to help some help our own
citizens.

I am humored by this burden concern when the US government has an endless
supply of money. yes .. ENDLESS ! This interesting site explains the point.
http://www.toptips.com/debtclock.html
These figures have been running the same direction long before you were born
and will continue to do so long time after you are dead.

Andrew DeFaria

Sec. 213A. (a) Enforceability.-


(1) Terms of affidavit.-No affidavit of support may be accepted by the Attorney General or by any consular officer to establish that an alien is not excludable as a public charge under section 212(a)(4) unless such affidavit is executed by a sponsor of the alien as a contract-



(A) in which the sponsor agrees to provide support to maintain the sponsored alien at an annual income that is not less than 125 percent of the Federal poverty line during the period in which the affidavit is enforceable;


(B) that is legally enforceable against the sponsor by the sponsored alien, the Federal Government, any State (or any political subdivision of such State) or by any other entity that provides any means-tested public benefit (as defined in subsection (e)), consistent with the provisions of this section; and


(C) in which the sponsor agrees to submit to the jurisdiction of any Federal or State court for the purpose of actions brought under subsection (b)(2).


(2) Period of enforceability.-An affidavit of support shall be enforceable with respect to benefits provided for an alien before the date the alien is naturalized as a citizen of the United States, or, if earlier, the termination date provided under paragraph (3).


(3) Termination of period of enforceability upon completion of required period of employment, etc.-


(A) In general.-An affidavit of support is not enforceable after such time as the alien (i) has worked 40 qualifying quarters of coverage as defined under title II of the Social Security Act or can be credited with such qualifying quarters as provided under subparagraph (B), and (ii) in the case of any such qualifying quarter creditable for any period beginning after December 31, 1996, did not receive any Federal means-tested public benefit (as provided under section 403 of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996) during any such period.


(B) Qualifying quarters.-For purposes of this section, in determining the number of qualifying quarters of coverage under title II of the Social Security Act an alien shall be credited with-


(i) all of the qualifying quarters of coverage as defined under title II of the Social Security Act worked by a parent of such alien while the alien was under age 18, and


(ii) all of the qualifying quarters worked by a spouse of such alien during their marriage and the alien remains married to such spouse or such spouse is deceased.


No such qualifying quarter of coverage that is creditable under title II of the Social Security Act for any period beginning after December 31, 1996, may be credited to an alien under clause (i) or (ii) if the parent or spouse (as the case may be) of such alien received any Federal means- tested public benefit (as provided under section 403 of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996) during the period for which such qualifying quarter of coverage is so credited.


(C) Provision of information to save system.-The Attorney General shall ensure that appropriate information regarding the application of this paragraph is provided to the system for alien verification of eligibility (SAVE) described in section 1137(d)(3) of the Social Security Act.


(b) Reimbursement of Government Expenses.-


(1) Request for reimbursement.-


(A) Requirement.-Upon notification that a sponsored alien has received any means-tested public benefit, the appropriate nongovernmental entity which provided such benefit or the appropriate entity of the Federal Government, a State, or any political subdivision of a State shall request reimbursement by the sponsor in an amount which is equal to the unreimbursed costs of such benefit.


(B) Regulations.-The Attorney General, in consultation with the heads of other appropriate Federal agencies, shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to carry out subparagraph (A).



(2) Actions to compel reimbursement.-



(A) In case of nonresponse.-If within 45 days after a request for reimbursement under paragraph (1)(A), the appropriate entity has not received a response from the sponsor indicating a willingness to commence payment an action may be brought against the sponsor pursuant to the affidavit of support.


(B) In case of failure to pay.-If the sponsor fails to abide by the repayment terms established by the appropriate entity, the entity may bring an action against the sponsor pursuant to the affidavit of support.

(C) Limitation on actions.-No cause of action may be brought under this paragraph later than 10 years after the date on which the sponsored alien last received any means-tested public benefit to which the affidavit of support applies.


(3) Use of collection agencies.-If the appropriate entity under paragraph (1)(A) requests reimbursement from the sponsor or brings an action against the sponsor pursuant to the affidavit of support, the appropriate entity may appoint or hire an individual or other person to act on behalf of such entity acting under the authority of law for purposes of collecting any amounts owed.


(c) Remedies.-Remedies available to enforce an affidavit of support under this section include any or all of the remedies described in section 3201, 3203, 3204, or 3205 of title 28, United States Code, as well as an order for specific performance and payment of legal fees and other costs of collection, and include corresponding remedies available under State law. A Federal agency may seek to collect amounts owed under this section in accordance with the provisions of subchapter II of chapter 37 of title 31, United States Code.

Andrew DeFaria

c) Remedies.-Remedies available to enforce an affidavit of support under this section include any or all of the remedies described in section 3201, 3203, 3204, or 3205 of title 28, United States Code, as well as an order for specific performance and payment of legal fees and other costs of collection, and include corresponding remedies available under State law. A Federal agency may seek to collect amounts owed under this section in accordance with the provisions of subchapter II of chapter 37 of title 31, United States Code.


(d) Notification of Change of Address.-



(1) General requirement.-The sponsor shall notify the Attorney General and the State in which the sponsored alien is currently a resident within 30 days of any change of address of the sponsor during the period in which an affidavit of support is enforceable.


(2) Penalty.-Any person subject to the requirement of paragraph (1) who fails to satisfy such requirement shall, after notice and opportunity to be heard, be subject to a civil penalty of-


(A) not less than $250 or more than $2,000, or


(B) if such failure occurs with knowledge that the sponsored alien has received any means-tested public benefits (other than benefits described in section 401(b), 403(c)(2), or 411(b) of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996) not less than $2,000 or more than $5,000.


The Attorney General shall enforce this paragraph under appropriate regulations.


(e) Jurisdiction.-An action to enforce an affidavit of support executed under subsection (a) may be brought against the sponsor in any appropriate court-


(1) by a sponsored alien, with respect to financial support; or


(2) by the appropriate entity of the Federal Government, a State or any political subdivision of a State, or by any other nongovernmental entity under subsection (b)(2), with respect to reimbursement.


(f) Sponsor Defined.-


(1) In general.-For purposes of this section the term "sponsor" in relation to a sponsored alien means an individual who executes an affidavit of support with respect to the sponsored alien and who-


(A) is a citizen or national of the United States or an alien who is lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence;


(B) is at least 18 years of age;


(C) is domiciled in any of the several States of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any territory or possession of the United States;


(D) is petitioning for the admission of the alien under section 204; and


(E) demonstrates (as provided in paragraph (6)) the means to maintain an annual income equal to at least 125 percent of the Federal poverty line.


(2) INCOME REQUIREMENT CASE.--Such term also includes an individual who does not meet the requirement of paragraph (1)(E) but accepts joint and several liability together with an individual under paragraph (5)(A). 1a/



(3) Active duty armed services case.-Such term also includes an individual who does not meet the requirement of paragraph (1)(E) but is on active duty (other than active duty for training) in the Armed Forces of the United States, is petitioning for the admission of the alien under section 204 as the spouse or child of the individual, and demonstrates (as provided in paragraph (6)) the means to maintain an annual income equal to at least 100 percent of the Federal poverty line.


(4) Certain employment-based immigrants case.-Such term also includes an individual-


(A) who does not meet the requirement of paragraph (1)(D), but is the relative of the sponsored alien who filed a classification petition for the sponsored alien as an employment- based immigrant under section 203(b) or who has a significant ownership interest in the entity that filed such a petition; and


(B)(i) who demonstrates (as provided under paragraph (6)) the means to maintain an annual income equal to at least 125 percent of the Federal poverty line (or in the case of an affidavit for a spouse or minor child of the petitioner 140 percent of the Federal poverty line), or


(ii) does not meet the requirement of paragraph (1)(E) but accepts joint and several liability together with an individual under paragraph (5)(A). 1a/


(5) 1a/ NON-PETITIONING CASES- Such term also includes an individual who does not meet the requirement of paragraph (1)(D) but who--



(A) accepts joint and several liability with a petitioning sponsor under paragraph (2) or relative of an employment-based immigrant under paragraph (4) and who demonstrates (as provided under paragraph (6)) the means to maintain an annual income equal to at least 125 percent of the Federal poverty line; or



(B) is a spouse, parent, mother-in-law, father-in-law, sibling, child (if at least 18 years of age), son, daughter, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, sister-in-law, brother-in-law, grandparent, or grandchild of a sponsored alien or a legal guardian of a sponsored alien, meets the requirements of paragraph (1) (other than subparagraph (D)), and executes an affidavit of support with respect to such alien in a case in which--



(i) the individual petitioning under section 204 for the classification of such alien died after the approval of such petition; and



(ii) the Attorney General has determined for humanitarian reasons that revocation of such petition under section 205 would be inappropriate.



(6) Demonstration of means to maintain income.-


(A) In general.-


(i) Method of demonstration.-For purposes of this section, a demonstration of the means to maintain income shall include provision of a certified copy of the individual's Federal income tax return for the individual's 3 most recent taxable years and a written statement, executed under oath or as permitted under penalty of perjury under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code, that the copies are certified copies of such returns.


(ii) Flexibility.-For purposes of this section, aliens may demonstrate the means to maintain income through demonstration of significant assets of the sponsored alien or of the sponsor, if such assets are available for the support of the sponsored alien.


(iii) Percent of poverty.-For purposes of this section, a reference to an annual income equal to at least a particular percentage of the Federal poverty line means an annual income equal to at least such percentage of the Federal poverty line for a family unit of a size equal to the number of members of the sponsor's household (including family and non-family dependents) plus the total number of other dependents and aliens sponsored by that sponsor.


(B) Limitation.-The Secretary of State, or the Attorney General in the case of adjustment of status, may provide that the demonstration under subparagraph (A) applies only to the most recent taxable year.(h)



(h)2/ Federal Poverty Line Defined.-For purposes of this section, the term "Federal poverty line" means the level of income equal to the official poverty line (as defined by the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, as revised annually by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, in accordance with section 673(2) of the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981 (42 U.S.C. 9902)) that is applicable to a family of the size involved.


(i) Sponsor's Social Security Account Number Required to Be Provided.-


(1) An affidavit of support shall include the social security account number of each sponsor.


(2) The Attorney General shall develop an automated system to maintain the social security account number data provided under paragraph (1).


(3) The Attorney General shall submit an annual report to the Committees on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives and the Senate setting forth-


(A) for the most recent fiscal year for which data are available the number of sponsors under this section and the number of sponsors in compliance with the financial obligations of this section; and


(B) a comparison of such numbers with the numbers of such sponsors for the preceding fiscal year.







FOOTNOTES FOR SECTION 213A


INA: ACT 213A FN 1



FN1 Added by § 551 of IIRIRA, effective date set forth by subsection (c) of § 551 which provides:


"(c) Effective Date; Promulgation of Form-


(1) In general.-The amendments made by this section shall apply to affidavits of support executed on or after a date specified by the Attorney General, which date shall be not earlier than 60 days (and not later than 90 days) after the date the Attorney General formulates the form for such affidavits under paragraph (2).


(2) Promulgation of form.-Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Attorney General, in consultation with the heads of other appropriate agencies, shall promulgate a standard form for an affidavit of support consistent with the provisions of section 213A of the Immigration and Nationality Act, as amended by subsection (a)."



INA: ACT 213A FN1a



FN 1a Section 213A(f)(5) revised in its entirety by section 2(a)(1) of the Family Sponsor Immigration Act of 2002, Public Law 107-150, dated March 13, 2002.



Section 2(a)(3) amended section 213A(f)(2) and (f)(4)(B)(ii) by revising "(5)" to read "(5)(A)".

Mtravelkay

DTX725 wrote:

    > I wonder if that would make a dent in the $160 BILLION plus that the US gov
    > dumped off to barbaric Iraq and Afghanistan. Or threaten the millions that
    > would be spent to have some astronauts inhabit the moon and mars. We surely
    > must not jeopardize that type of spending just to help some help our own
    > citizens.
    >
    > I am humored by this burden concern when the US government has an endless
    > supply of money. yes .. ENDLESS ! This interesting site explains the point.
    > http://www.toptips.com/debtclock.html
    > These figures have been running the same direction long before you were born
    > and will continue to do so long time after you are dead.

Actually, during certain periods, prior to the current presidency, there
were annual budget surpluses which would cause the Debt Clock to go in
reverse..... But, the issue here that the OP needs to be concerned with
is what is required to get his fiance here, not what else the government
spends money on. It doesn't matter... For this process, he has to prove
that he (or a co sponser) meets the financial requirements. He can
argue about the national debt as much as he wants, but that isn't going
to solve his problem.

Danny Davis

Ben,

Harold is correct that real estate is not a liquid asset but equity in real
estate is.

If you include your employer letter and income figures AND your assets. All
liquid assets, bank accounts, stocks, bonds, and equities. The assets again
must total at least 5 times the value of your shortfall.

I don't know what you consider a low paying job. If you are talking $6 an
hour then your income is roughly $12,000. The requirement is for 125%, not
100%, so for 2 people you would need $15,613 minimum income. That means that
if you have $12,000 you need (5x$3613) $18,065 in assets.

Good Luck,
Dan Davis

"Ben Tohelanbac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Will it be a problem if I do not have a 1040 or any other proof of income?
    > Can I show proof of assets instead? If so, how much value would be
required?