Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

^^^ What he said, but without the first sentence. Infrastructure is crumbling here in NL. Not so much in Essex or Norfolk when I visited this summer.

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

When I started working for (then) DHSS in 1973 they were just doing away with something called The Wage Stop, a rule that prevented higher benefit payments than earned income. Looks like we're coming full circle.

For the sake of simplicity they say. But how difficult is it to cross reference a couple's income and do exactly that?


I'm not sure money is spent better if people can still face financial ruin from ill health. The great welfare system in the UK just went too far.

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

I think the overal tax and NI take for the government must be higher with working couples. ie it is less efficient to have only one rather than two couples in a household working. If it were possible for a couple to share their tax allowances its less likely the lower earner would work with a knock on effect on people employed in child minding etc. I forget her name but the labour secretary of state referred to non working mothers as "problem mothers" for this reason. ie they weren't out at work providing valuable tax receipts.

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

My friend who still lives in the UK has 4 kids ranging from 12 down to 3. She gets around £250 a month and up until this ruling she would have been entitled to claim this right up until the eldest is 16. It would then reduce as each child reaches the cut off age.

If she lived here in Canada she would be entitled to $100 a month, and this would end when the youngest hits 6. I'm assuming that this cut off was set so that it would encourage people back to work.

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

I must admit, when we had our kids, I found it bizarre to receive child benefit. We both had good jobs, lived in a nice house, had nice cars etc., that we should receive any 'benefit' from the state seemed truly bonkers.

Benefits should be there as a safety net to help people in times of need, they should not be thought of as a right or indeed a way of life.

I think the reason that benefits are so 'sacred' in the UK is simply that it's what people are used to and so to many it is a 'right' (whether they've contributed or not).

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

Cutting the child benefit just gives another reason to come to Canada for your kids.

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

Unfortunately this is not the case, at least with a quick look with a UK tax calculator for a couple of case around the proposed cutoff point.

2 single earners of 40k would pay 20950 in tax and NI
1 single earner of 80k would pay 26490 in tax and NI

2 single earners of 35k would pay 17850 in tax and NI
1 single earner of 70k would pay 22390 in tax and NI

Regardless of whether or not child benefit should be paid to the middle classes, these figures make the proposed system of deciding who gets it a complete joke.

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

If you had quoted my entire post, you would see that I was referring to what posters on this site had said: I suggest you are more selective with your selective quoting in future.

I care not to comment on the rest of your post

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

Maybe i'm missing something but i'm not sure what the problem with this is. One family chooses* to have one income, the other does not. Why should one couple have their income reduced because of their lifestyle choice?


*obviously those with disabilities, single parents, etc do not have the same choices

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

Exactly, isn`t that the argument for taxing the household as one unit, in the most socialist way (it would ensure that both families are treated equally)? Why should the single earner have to pay more tax that the couple? I can`t see a justification for it myself.

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

I don't see the justification either.

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

Because, as an individual, i deserve (very selfishly) to keep as much of my wage as my peer who just so happens to be a part of a one income family.

Why should i, as an individual, have to lose out financially due to others life choices*?




*obviously those with disabilities, single parents, etc do not have the same choices

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

These aren't realistic comparisons though. If I work my salary doesn't depend on whether mrs jimf works or not ie if I and mrs jimf work earning 35k each then just because mrs jimf doesnt work my salary doesnt go up to 70k.

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

Ok, so if you and your other half were childless, both individually working, earning 40k per year each, would you be happy to begin giving up ~6k of your yearly income to make it fair for single income families?

I wouldn't. But i'm mercenary :)

I've still not heard a good enough justification for me to give up a chunk of my earnings because of somebody else's life choices who also happens to earn a crap load more than i do :)

Re: Why are benefits so sacred in the UK?
 

OK, my entitlement to anything means tested, for the most part, depends upon household income rather than individual income. The fact that this doesn`t apply to income tax is, you have to admit, a little strange.

For example, in Canadaland, I can apply any unused personal allowance of my wife to my tax return. I suspect, that this was also the case in the UK before the tax grabbing, big government spending lefties got in, but I accept I could be wrong.

I thought you did earn a crap load - maybe my memory is failing me again