Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

I have lost count of the number of people that I have met with an English/Welsh LL.B. but whom did not practise in England or Wales prior to moving to Canada that have received advanced standing from the NCA. As you are likely aware, issues abound if the LL.B. is a Scottish one or if your English/Welsh LL.B. was a Richard.

I would think that the NCA would prefer someone with LL.B. and LLM but no practical experience over someone with a bare LL.B. and practise. Bizarre!

However, I agree with JonboyE. It may be a lucky escape:p

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

Have you thought about the University of London's International Programmes? They are pretty inexpensive and you can do a BSc in Management through distance learning.

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

That was kind of my thinking as well. I feel like I already have plenty of Canadian education and experience, but Canadians are incredibly insular when it comes to these types of things.

When it comes to an MBA, where you obtained it seems to be a big thing. Nevertheless, for what I want to do with an MBA, the degree isn't usually viewed a "must have" - more of a "nice to have" and possibly an advantage over other applicants.

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

Thanks. When I first returned to Canada and went to interviews, people would sneer and say things like, "What's wrong? Wasn't a Canadian university good enough for you?" The problem is I'm more Canadian than British, and I was looked upon as being a "traitor" for obtaining my university education abroad. At the time, employers also didn't know quite what to think of me because I had this Scottish law degree that I did right out of high school (unlike over here, where law is basically a graduate degree).

Since then, it's been more of a feeling than outright hostility. In spite of all of my Canadian qualifications, I never had an easy time getting interviews for HR jobs. Now it's completely impossible. No one is calling me (other than a headhunter who told me I wouldn't be a fit for the job I was applying for and that my resume basically sucks).

Again, it's as if HR people view me as a traitor for taking a line manager job the last six years. My non-HR title doesn't do me justice, yet everything I do is HR or employment law-related. I have an HR professional and two lawyers reporting to me. I've also written books, articles, online content and have a blog - all on HR.

I have thought about taking a strategic step backwards to get back into a more traditional HR role, but then I'm into the "overqualified" trap. I also tend to view recruiter jobs as "been there, done that," having worked as a recruiter for over four years. And, by the way, I already have my CHRP designation. However, I do see your point, and I may just have to aim low for a while in order to get back into the field.

The problem could be my resume (as the headhunter above mentioned). However, I changed my resume to a functional format because I wasn't getting any calls with my chronological resume. I've since went back to the chronological style. I know a thing or two about resumes, having done recruitment and helping other people with their resumes. Nevertheless, it might make sense to take my resume to an unbiased professional for a makeover. One thing I won't do is change my title (although I discovered a neat trick and now include another title as an "equivalent" in brackets - I'm going to see how that works out for me).

Anyway, sorry for my rant. It seems like the HR job market is truly awful right now. That's one of the reasons why I'm starting to question whether I should even stick with HR as a career.

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

I have a Scottish LLB and an English LLM. My Scottish degree might have something to do with it. I also think the age of my degree is a factor, and the fact that my marks weren't exactly outstanding (I was considered a foreign student in the UK and my parents ran into some financial difficulties so I had to support myself by working various part-time jobs; I also enjoyed the "social" side of university a little too much - it was Scotland, after all ;)).

For a while, I was all gung ho about becoming a lawyer, but then I stopped and thought about it. In order to do that, I was considering doing two more law degrees (an English one and a Canadian one). However, I realized it would cost me a huge amount of additional money, and I wouldn't be called to the Bar until I'm at least 47.

However, this could change. Today, it's HR. It could be back to law by tomorrow. By the next day, it could be marketing (another area I'm considering). :frown:

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

I think using a term like insular is not that helpful, though I understand how it feels that way at times. If you are hiring an accountant for a tax practice in Canada do you want one trained in Canada or the UK? If you need a lawyer do you go to see one trained in UK or Canadian law?

A senior HR specialist needs a thorough understanding of employment law and labour standards. How does someone who education in law is from the UK and whose experience is outside Canada reassure Canadian employers that they have the same knowledge as a local?

A business owner or CEO might take a chance on an outsider if they see something in the candidate they admire. However, most recruitment processes and, unfortunately many HR departments, look to make "safe" appointments rather than take a chance.

I think doing an MBA is a great idea but do it with a Canadian institution. It gets around the Canadian qualification problem, gives you a solid grounding in business theory and, just as importantly, gets your professional network off to a great start.

Athabasca University have an online executive MBA course you could look at. http://www.mba.athabascau.ca/titanwe...7?Opendocument

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

Actually - I think this part is what you might value the most about a Canadian MBA. As we tend to repeat ad nauseum on this forum - never underestimate the power of networking!

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

I've never heard of the Internation Program before, and have to say the study fees are a lot more reasonable than I expected! My Bachelor of Business fees are €1750 for year 1 and 2, rising to €2,000 in year 3. I've only had a cursory look over the BSc, but if I can do some cross crediting, I would be interested in continuing/adding further qualifications a bit later.

Thanks so much :D

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

Ah, that explains it. As spaces at law school in Canada are very limited, those that do not have sufficient grades to get in frequently go to the UK (Cardiff in particular) to obtain their LL.B. If you are a Canadian with a Scottish law degree, their default position is likely to be that you were not good enough to get into law school here. It is, likely, nonsense, but that is what they think about such things.

For example, I was questioned endlessly about why I didn't attend law school in Canada (I was a solicitor in England before moving to Calgary). They didn't seem to want to accept the fact that, as I wanted to be a solicitor in England, the most sensible thing for me to do was to attend a University in England. They were convinced that I wasn't good enough to get into law school in Canada. Bizarre!

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

In your situation an MBA with a concentration in HR if that's your interest, would seem to be the best thing for you IMHO. If Ryerson is too spendy then move to Newfoundland for a couple of years and do it at Memorial in St. John's. Cost $5k+text books!;)

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

You're welcome. I hope it works out for you! The University of London's distance learning programmes are quite challenging and you have to be self-motivated. However, with your previous business experience, I don't think you would have too much difficulty.

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

Ryerson isn't terribly expensive at about 15K for the entire program. It's just not the most prestigious business school (it's no Rotman (Toronto), Schulich (York) or Ivey (Western)). However, I am starting to lean towards Ryerson, since more UK education might not be the best thing for me at this point - and there's no way I can afford some of the more prestigious programs.

Memorial sounds intriguing. I've heard St. John's is a blast! However, with a wife, a child, a mortgage and a dog it would be a real hassle to uproot and move to another province. In the end, it would probably cheaper to do an MBA locally - on a part-time basis.

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

I understand what you're saying. However, I have a Canadian HR designation, a Canadian postgraduate certificate in HR, a Canadian law certificate (which included an employment law course) and two business management certificates from a Canadian university. Also, all of my HR experience has been in Canada, and I am currently working on another certificate in organizational leadership at a Canadian university.

With regard to law, if I ever decided to become a lawyer here in Canada I would never expect to just walk into a job as a lawyer. Some retraining should obviously be required. Nevertheless, I was given absolutely no advanced standing towards becoming a lawyer here.

If you look at it another way, I have four years of legal training from the UK. I could have went to a Canadian law school and got 100% credit for a year spent on an exchange program at a British university. Where is the sense in that? Also, if I became a lawyer here, then went back to the UK, the process of qualifying over there would be far less onerous than it is here.

I'm a Canadian citizen, raised in Canada (although I was born and educated in the UK). I've spent 34 of my 41 years living in Canada, so I'm not criticizing the attitude of Canadian employers from the perspective of someone "freshly off the boat" from the UK. Nevertheless, there is a real problem in this country with internationally educated professionals not having their credentials recognized.

Anyway, point well taken. If I do an MBA, I should do it with a Canadian university. Thanks for the input everyone!

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

The whole attitude that Canadian education is the best, and that people only go to law schools elsewhere because they couldn't get into a Canadian school is ridiculous. And your experience is insane - someone born and raised in the UK is even getting that attitude!

Nevertheless, some Canadian lawyers are more reasonable than others (without stereotyping people, it mainly seems to be the young kids in law school and freshly out of law school who are the worst offenders when it comes to thinking everyone else is inferior). My boss and his boss both waved me off and scoffed at me when I corrected them by saying I'm not a lawyer. They both said something to the effect of, "Whatever. You're a lawyer. Don't be silly." They're both Canadian lawyers. It felt nice to get that kind of respect from them.

In my case, I headed off to do my law degree in Scotland right after high school - something I couldn't have done here. So, the whole attitude that I only went abroad because I couldn't get into a Canadian school is ridiculous. I really thought I wanted to live and work in Scotland for the rest of my life. But then I got homesick for Canada (after all, I grew up here and did all of my schooling here). I also couldn't afford the foreign student fees for the Diploma in Legal Practice, which is necessary to become a solicitor or advocate in Scotland.

Re: Who has "gone back to school" ?
 

All of these responses are very motivational!

I didn't go to Uni, and career wise it never became an issue. However after 10+ years as a recruiter and having dabbled in training I've decided to try and make a more strategic effort towards making a training career happen. So with that in mind I start at Simon Fraser in two weeks! (it's eves and weekends), I was starting to question whether or not I should and is it worth it. But reading some of your responses has inspired me again to get it done :D