raindropsandroses

Is this directed at me, or the thread in general? If at me I'm happy to answer.

Shard

Not specifically directed at you, but certainly at the practice of asking permission for everything. Two adults ought to be able to communicate non-verbally, especially after a few years of intimacy. I think the video BIP posted sums it up well.

raindropsandroses

I can't load the video sadly. I'm really not sure why its (asking every time) the subject of so much derision, and yes, of course we can communicate non verbally, but on this we both feel strongly that its something we want to communicate verbally about. Gah, that was more eloquent in my head than written down!

GermanytoCanada

I've heard it all now.

DandNHill

I like the spontaneity of not asking and as others have said the body language to me is what says yes or no.
Providing we get each other’s signals for yes or no we’re both happy with the way it works for us.
It would seem a little weird to ask permission to touch him or kiss him. It somehow brings back memories of my ex husband and how he controlled me. But that’s another story.

But... if raindrops and hubby feel that way and it works for both of them then who are we to judge?

BritInParis

If it works for them then that's fine. It's when anyone else not doing the exact same thing suddenly find themselves placed on the 'rape spectrum' then things start getting very unpleasant.

DandNHill

Yes unfortunately all these actions are open to interpretation. At what stage is a husband a rapist if he forces himself on his wife who says no once but then gives in because it’s easier? Very gray areas in all these situations.

Paul_Shepherd

The question is, how far does any of this go? In another capacity this permission thing, takes away a lot of the warmth that is offered from one person to another as a means of genuine comfort.

I am not particulary a tactile person, but if someone is visibly upset I will reach out to them (male or female) with a hand....... as a form of empathy and/or comfort. I have never seen anything wrong with this. I am questioning it now though.

GermanytoCanada

If you are ever in NS and reach out to a lady in distress, check there isn't a massive dog there first!

dave_j

Oh what a minefield. Step out of the ordinary and you'll be sure to find someone who'll criticize and say you're doing it wrong.

They'll argue that they're simply trying to learn when in fact they're telling you that it should be done their way and that you're wierd.

Whatever happened to the 'concept of reasonableness', where any form of reasonable behaviour was acceptable. Surely we all, or very nearly all, have tongues in our heads and if we practice hard you'll find that the words 'Yes' and 'No' can be articulated quite easily and used to express consent or otherwise. Unreasonable behaviour begins when such expressions are ignored, anything else should be acceptable to everyone.

Siouxie

I'm a very tactile person - and I, too, reach out to anyone who is in distress.. a hand on an arm, a touch, a hug.. and I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

sharkus

I'm pretty tactile too, so I'm of the same opinion as you.

Now the question, or perhaps litmus test would be, if you were to do this, and I were to do this, to the same or opposite gender whom would have the higher probability of being seen as committing sexual harassment, as from what I understand touching another human being seems to equate to that these days.

you can possibly guess where my money would be placed.

Paul_Shepherd

Yes....this is the worrying thing now.....no one is questioning what an utterly vile man Weinstein is for example, but in many cases accusations are being flung left right and centre, and things seem to be getting out of hand now.

Verdant

You could equally argue that they're just rising to the surface after being buried systematically by organisations looking to safeguard their own interests. I think a lot of this swell is due to the fact that this has gone on unchallenged for years. I do think there is the danger of people weaponising the situation, but if it makes some men (and some women) think twice about what is acceptable or (more likely) what they can get away with - then so be it.

Paul_Shepherd

I'm all for the genuine cases, and Weinstein is a perfect example, however as you say its the fact that the situation could well end up being weaponised. Sad thing is that its more likely the innocent cases will get the raw end of the deal, and will end up as unfortunate collateral damage.