mikelincs

I see that GOSH are distancing themselves from it and returning all monies that have been given in the past, they do not want to be associated with such events.

Teaandtoday5

OH bats, I had such a loooong list in response to thread title but the actual topic, and some of the responses on this thread make such depressing reading It's as if some have not evolved beyond Shard's profile pic. Sigh.

^Well said.

Shard

The difference with slavery is that it is non-volitional. My point was that some individuals choose a different form of human experience.

dbd33

I think that, if one of my daughters were to apply for a job as a hostess there, we'd have much the same conversation as when one applied for a job at Hooters.

"Men are pigs, you know"

<rolls eyes> "I'm a lifeguard. What do you think hasn't happened already?"

Digression into discussion of dealing with "inappropriate costumes".


I don't say that people should be groped at work. I do say that someone signing up for a job where the required colour and format of knickers is specified should not expect better.

Shard

Yes, this is pretty much my view.

JamesM

Here we are:

Presidents Club: Scandal-hit charity dinner organiser quits post - BBC News

The hostesses were made to sign a 5 page non-disclosure agreement.

Shard

[QUOTE=JamesM;12426607]

The hostesses "were made" to sign a 5 page non-disclosure agreement.

Teaandtoday5

Assuming you had the required income level, would you attend? If you did, how would you behave? Not personal. Just wondering. So much of the response to this seems to be 'well what were the women expecting?'. Why shouldn't better be expected of men?

bats

Depending on the lighting non black knickers can show through a black dress which makes the specification a design choice. Even if it wasn't what you wear does not indicate consent to pussy grabbing.

Shard

But wasn't it the President's Club?

Verdant

Interesting that you pointed hooters out - massively flopped over here. It was seen as naf.

Excusing men for their apparent inability to control themselves is condoning such behaviour. As a bloke btw, I think we're better than that. I've never felt it was necessary to go say sexual stuff to somebody while they're working. It's not only inappropriate but freaking weird and desperate >snip<.

Being ogled at is one thing, having unsolicited lewd comments or someone exposing themselves in front of you, is quite another. There is nothing inherent in a hostess' role that makes it objectively 'OK' for the above to happen. Equally, a stripper agreeing to get naked in exchange for money isn't agreeing to physical contact, but punters often think that they're entitled to that and step over that line. Sure there's a risk of that happening, which is why strip clubs often remind punters of what's acceptable/unacceptable. Some strip joints don't and they're failing their duties to those women and men working there.

Blaming the outcome as a result of the choice of clothing is the same argument used in defense of harassment or rape of a woman dressed provocatively on a night out and one which is an old internalised social narrative that proportions blame and responsibility largely at the feet of the woman. Seeing some old sods defending such an argument is really sad. Thankfully the narrative is being rewritten whether you like it or not.

Just because they're happy to wear something risque (because it makes them feel sexy and as something considered fashionable and who may or may not be looking to attract someone), does not mean they resign their rights as a human to be treated with respect and fairness.

raindropsandroses

I completely agree. Absolutely revolting behaviour. Yet again such a shame that all the "they were naieve, they were asking for it, they got paid what's the problem" comments are coming out from whichever rock their voicers live under. Some of the comments on t'web are so depressing.

I notice in the pamphlet given to attendees it requested that the didn't sexually harass anyone while at the event. Nice. People shouldn't have to be asked not to sexually harass!

dbd33

No. That sort of event is part of corporate life here, at least among the cradles, I avoid going.

dbd33

Ha!

I think there's a serious point here though. The President behaves in a manner that would previously not have been acceptable. I think it likely that his conduct will, in due course, cause a shift in social mores so as to make it more acceptable than it might have been a decade ago.

dbd33

Pun intended?