dbd33

The circumstances aren't comparable.

Jenner is a circus act, any form of weird excess promotes his brand and does so only at the expense of other freak shop performers; child mothers in porn films, fat women partnered with child molestors, Geordies, residents of Chelsea. He or she isn't a useful example of society's attitude to transexuals.

Dolezal has sought advantage in conventional work by claiming abstract attributes illogically prized by society, arguably she's denied someone who genuinely has those attributes an opportunity. This is similar to parents in Ontario who claim their children to be Catholic or non-verbal children to be francophone. It's not comparable to someone who chooses to change gender since there's no societal advantage to switching.

My view is that, if the government sets up postive discrimination for groups of people, it's fair game for people to shoehorn themselves into those groups. If the government wants to say that people have to be n% black, aboriginal or Catholic to qualify for something then they should establish a means of measuring that. If they don't then octoroon is as good as quintroon is as good as maybe-had-one-ancestor-of-mixed-race.

I don't see any problem with individuals claiming to be of another race or religion. The problem there is not the individuals but the quotas.

Shard

+1

Especially as both (race,religion) are fictions.

Not sure the invented complexities of "passing" "reverse passing" and "taking up space" do anyone any good.

sharkus

If indeed she is white, then she lied to get a job, and this will hopefully follow her around for some time and make others wary. It wasn't something she did accidentally, it was done knowingly and wilfully.

Infantile as it is, I do feel like uttering the infamous Ali G line: "is it coz I iz black?"

Jericho79

If we are allowed to claims things about ourselves that are untrue, does that mean we can lie about our age, or education?

Should I be able to argue that because I identify with being a PhD, that i therefore can claim to have a PhD? Can a teenager claim to be in his/her 40's?

The answer is clearly no.

We all understand what is meant with racial profiles. To claim to be black, and to do so quite deceptively, is wrong and she has been rightly outed.

dbd33

One is, in fact, so many years of age due to the event of one's birth having been documented at the time. One has, or has not, a PhD and documentation to prove it.

Race, religion and sexual orientation are intangible; they're not reasonable criteria by which to judge people and so it's not an issue to me if people change them. In the case of claiming to be Black I'd think that a two edged sword though whether or not the person experienced the disadvantages would rather depend on whether or not other people thought she was Black, not whether she did.

Shard

We do "all understand what is meant with racial profiles" with thanks to our European forbears from the 18th century. They established some fairly distinct "races" which most of us know are now complete fabrications. So the question is, should we still care about these profiles? Should we be sustaining them? Generally speaking, I don't think we should, and should aim to be colour blind. Perhaps not only on pigmentation, but on cultural baggage too. Whatever colour this woman wants to identify as really doesn't matter.

Jericho79

I agree. Except that it obviously matters to her. She's not black, and she knows she's not black. She new what she was doing when she claimed to be a different skin colour. She knew it was a lie.

Should skin colour be important? Of course not. But that's not the question here.

Shard

It does seem to be the very nub of question. Both for her and all her critics. My contention is that we would all be best served by not even addressing that question ("is she black?"). She seems to have been contributing positively to society, she's a rights activist, just let her get on with it.

Former Lancastrian

Well apparently the US are going to be phasing out Trans fats
Trans fats to be phased out in U.S. - Health - CBC News

bats

She also seems to be a fantasist, there are various claims online about her lying on her resume about her art major, her family, her background. She's definitely plagiaried Turner. Id she wants to adopt a different ethnicity/race then that's up to her but lying about it to get a job is a different matter. Plus she's been living her life in 'Blackface' by wearing darker makeup and changing her hair, that's distateful to me.

Chosing to live your life in another culture to the extent of misrepresenting your origins isn't new. Archie Belaney became Grey Owl and learned many First Nations skills becoming influential in conservation. One man, Lev Nussbaum, was born a Jew but claimed to be an Arabic Muslim called Essad Bey. He even moved to Germany in the 1930s and his writing was approved of by the Nazi party. Nussbaum probably even died early as he continued to pretend he wasn't Jewish and died of a blood condition found in Ashkenazi Jews.

magnumpi

The Black and white minstrel show was not distasteful was it? Maybe she is a fan

Shard

She, herself, does seem to be a bit of a fantasist. Channel 4 had a very good interview her parents who seemed very level headed about the situation. On the other hand she does seem to have some black adopted siblings, so there must be something in her psychology that is impacting her identity.

Blackface is a bit of a loaded term. Many women around the world aim to change their complexion in one way or another (and even some men). Hairstyle is even less of an attribute to be concerned about.

Good examples of others who have misrepresented their origins.

DandNHill

Really enjoy these conversations... I know several transgender people and they have my every sympathy...

I haven't come across any trans racial people yet. The closest I have come is meeting those who want to cash in on their 1/100th drop of First Nation blood which means they can claim status and get lots of hand outs... (In NS anyway).

I am content in my middle aged, white, female skin and am not sure however that anybody can genuinely judge anybody else or understand those who are living a lifetime of confusion and are looking for the impossible solution to their issue.

As let's face it, even with a sex change or a bleaching of the skin we are still the product of our birth really...nothing can change that.

bats

Indian status is very hard to get. Someone with one indian parent would get Indian status provided that parent was class 6,1. If the parent was class 6.2 then the child doesnt get Indian status. A person can still be a member of a band, or adopted by a band, and not be a status Indian

Metis and Inuit ar First Nations but Indian status does not apply to them.

You have to be a status indian with an address on the reserve to get the "hand outs"

DandNHill

Not in NS. Each province is different.