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Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
There are some words that, to the people who know and care, immediately betray your political / philosophical leanings.
The word in that category that presents me with the most difficulty is Kenya. To the people who pronounce it Keenya, it's a slap in the face to say Kenya, and vice versa. Well, it's more than just a slap in the face. It's a rejection of everything they stand for. Hence it basically is a personal rejection as well. It's a rejection of membership of their "club." People react very badly when they admit you to the inner circle, and you turn down the privilege. No one has ever said this to me in as many words. Several of the people who feel strongly about it may not have thought about it consciously. It's unspoken. But, having grown up with one foot in white culture and one foot in black culture in Swaziland, I picked it up by osmosis. I hate having to name Kenya in the presence of a person who cares about its pronunciation. I sympathize with both sides, but would myself prefer to be a neutral player. Yet, in the presence of someone to whom it makes a difference, it's impossible to be neutral. The dynamics of the situation force you to choose one side or the other. You're either with us or you're against us. Fortunately in Canada I rarely bump into anyone who appreciates the nuance. Most Canadians are blissfully ignorant, bless them, and that suits me just fine. |
Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
Originally Posted by annie3-4
(Post 5730102)
cree, canny, claggy are brilliant words....:)
But i don't understand THESE words or know their meaning (being a Southener). Im sure though, if i'd moved to NE England instead of Canada i would probably pick them up and start using them as it fits in with the local dialect. Especially if my children were coming home from school and using them. Would that p#ss you off too? Would i still be a fake? |
Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
Originally Posted by joelsa
(Post 5732712)
But i don't understand THESE words or know their meaning (being a Southener). Im sure though, if i'd moved to NE England instead of Canada i would probably pick them up and start using them as it fits in with the local dialect. Especially if my children were coming home from school and using them. Would that p#ss you off too? Would i still be a fake?
Absolutely! You have to repeat yourself over and over instead to make yourself understood. Don't pick up local traditions, accents or idioms. If you do you are a fake and your speech will be classed as "cringeworthy". You have understood it perfectly well. ;) |
Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
(Post 5732619)
There are some words that, to the people who know and care, immediately betray your political / philosophical leanings.
The word in that category that presents me with the most difficulty is Kenya. To the people who pronounce it Keenya, it's a slap in the face to say Kenya, and vice versa. Well, it's more than just a slap in the face. It's a rejection of everything they stand for. Hence it basically is a personal rejection as well. It's a rejection of membership of their "club." People react very badly when they admit you to the inner circle, and you turn down the privilege. No one has ever said this to me in as many words. Several of the people who feel strongly about it may not have thought about it consciously. It's unspoken. But, having grown up with one foot in white culture and one foot in black culture in Swaziland, I picked it up by osmosis. I hate having to name Kenya in the presence of a person who cares about its pronunciation. I sympathize with both sides, but would myself prefer to be a neutral player. Yet, in the presence of someone to whom it makes a difference, it's impossible to be neutral. The dynamics of the situation force you to choose one side or the other. You're either with us or you're against us. Fortunately in Canada I rarely bump into anyone who appreciates the nuance. Most Canadians are blissfully ignorant, bless them, and that suits me just fine. A very god way of telling us all that this is such a trivial thing in comparison to what is going on in Kenya. Judy, you really have a way with words. Thank you. |
Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
(Post 5732619)
There are some words that, to the people who know and care, immediately betray your political / philosophical leanings.
The word in that category that presents me with the most difficulty is Kenya. To the people who pronounce it Keenya, it's a slap in the face to say Kenya, and vice versa. Well, it's more than just a slap in the face. It's a rejection of everything they stand for. Hence it basically is a personal rejection as well. It's a rejection of membership of their "club." People react very badly when they admit you to the inner circle, and you turn down the privilege. No one has ever said this to me in as many words. Several of the people who feel strongly about it may not have thought about it consciously. It's unspoken. But, having grown up with one foot in white culture and one foot in black culture in Swaziland, I picked it up by osmosis. I hate having to name Kenya in the presence of a person who cares about its pronunciation. I sympathize with both sides, but would myself prefer to be a neutral player. Yet, in the presence of someone to whom it makes a difference, it's impossible to be neutral. The dynamics of the situation force you to choose one side or the other. You're either with us or you're against us. Fortunately in Canada I rarely bump into anyone who appreciates the nuance. Most Canadians are blissfully ignorant, bless them, and that suits me just fine. Until your post I associated the pronuniciation differences with British class differences rather than a political stance. This was naive of me, so I thank you for your post and am now reading up on Kenya. |
Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
Originally Posted by daft batty
(Post 5734386)
I am aware that there are different pronunciations of the word and associate Keenya with "old colonials", and Kenya with the "new order". I also knew some Kenyan Indians who pronounce it Keenya. A work colleague moved to Keenya at the same time as we moved here. I noticed the newsreader here said Kenya.
Until your post I associated the pronuniciation differences with British class differences rather than a political stance. This was naive of me, so I thank you for your post and am now reading up on Kenya. I had heard that the shortening of the "e" was taken up by supporters of Jomo Kenyatta, and it was in his honour - if not on his initiative - that the pronunciation was changed. Perhaps I have this wrong? |
Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
Originally Posted by Oakvillian
(Post 5734426)
I had heard that the shortening of the "e" was taken up by supporters of Jomo Kenyatta
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Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
Originally Posted by Oakvillian
(Post 5734426)
My mother was born in Kenya (very much "Keenya" for the old colonials) and lived there and in Uganda until she, her mother & stepfather "returned" to the UK in the mid-1950s. I don't know as much as I probably should about the history of that part of East Africa - I recently read "The In-Between World of Vikram Lall" by M G Vassanji, the story of an Indian, now living in Canada who grew up through the Mau Mau uprising and Kenyan independence... I'd highly recommend this to anybody for an interesting perspective on the end of Empire.
I had heard that the shortening of the "e" was taken up by supporters of Jomo Kenyatta, and it was in his honour - if not on his initiative - that the pronunciation was changed. Perhaps I have this wrong? |
Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=036...OR-enlargePage
I remember being at school when I was a tiddly, and being beaten on the knuckles with a ruler by a sadistic nun, for saying Ken-ya rather than Keen-ya. The woman (alleged) was a total fossil, and had views that would have sounded more appropriate coming from inside a white pointed hat, rather than a black habit. In any event, I remember researching the issue years later at University for the military history part of my degree I actually paid attention to. I found this very letter, copied in an obscure journal, in a University library. I was so pleased to find it on my first Google hit tonight. My point is, that even in 1942, how you pronounced Kenya was an issue of significance. :cool: |
Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
Originally Posted by dingbat
(Post 5736532)
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=036...OR-enlargePage
I remember being at school when I was a tiddly, and being beaten on the knuckles with a ruler by a sadistic nun, for saying Ken-ya rather than Keen-ya. The woman (alleged) was a total fossil, and had views that would have sounded more appropriate coming from inside a white pointed hat, rather than a black habit. In any event, I remember researching the issue years later at University for the military history part of my degree I actually paid attention to. I found this very letter, copied in an obscure journal, in a University library. I was so pleased to find it on my first Google hit tonight. My point is, that even in 1942, how you pronounced Kenya was an issue of significance. :cool: |
Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 5736595)
Where were you at school? Mrs Castrian remembers the pointy headed nuns too.
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Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
I gave up reading this thread although some of the responses to the original post were as entertaining as ever.
I will add that when my son commenced grade 1 in BC (in 1987) shortly after our arrival from Germany, that the first parent teacher meeting was laughable. My Canadian wife went alone to be confronted by the teacher who was convinced that our son talked funny, hell he uttered nonsense such as, can I have a glass of 'waawter' vice well you know. Even when my wife indicated that he was raised on a British Army base in Germany and that his father was English, she continued to insist we have his speech impediment corrected! At the end of the year she wanted him to repeat grade 1 not wanting to let it go. At that point you can imagine our friggin response...:p |
Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
My twelve year old daughter was reading this thread and said "what is their problem" she has been here 6 months and she says many Canadian words!!!! and at time she totally sounds like she is Canadian.......and I have to agree with her there is nothing wrong with picking up the twang!!! At the end of the day we all came here to experience the Canadian life and me for one love it!!!!! if I was to talk in my geordie accent I dont think anyone would understand me so it is kinda fun using the twang
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Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
ha could not see me speaking canadian Im a scotty through and through up yar kilt and all that stuff.stayed in London for 20 years it took people long enough to understand me,now my sister hell within month she was giving it ok yah crap:eek:but give her a drink and guess what and to this day she is still the same and my brother is no bloody better,he sounds like a poof:rofl:nah Im going to stay myself thank you very much
kate |
Re: What REALLY pisses me off...
Originally Posted by jossie
(Post 5741513)
My twelve year old daughter was reading this thread and said "what is their problem" she has been here 6 months and she says many Canadian words!!!! and at time she totally sounds like she is Canadian.......and I have to agree with her there is nothing wrong with picking up the twang!!! At the end of the day we all came here to experience the Canadian life and me for one love it!!!!! if I was to talk in my geordie accent I dont think anyone would understand me so it is kinda fun using the twang
:-) Who cares if you pick up the twang or not. |
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