Re: The vegetable patch
 

That's where the confusion lies. Now I'm clear. :)


back to veggies folks......

Re: The vegetable patch
 

Aphids arethe next bugbear, do you get green/black and white fly in canada and how do you combat them? I will have to spray the fruit trees once the blossom has gone, don't want to kill the bees.

I keep loads of little twigs in piles around the garden for the ladybirds to hybernate in, they were out weeks ago, no aphids though, now they are gone, aphids are appearing. Bloody weather!

Re: The vegetable patch
 

Neighbour (of the grass) uses washing up liquid only - no pesticides of bug killing variety.

Re: The vegetable patch
 

Most washing up soap is phytotoxic to plants, the safest one to use are Ivory or Dove if you want to give the bugs a bath. Dish soap does make a good surfactant though. In Canada (and the UK), under the strict letter of the law, it is illegal to use anything as a pesticide unless it is approved for such purposes by Health Canada - This includes using dish soap.

Many chemicals for domestic uses are now either prohibited or soon to be, either by federal regulation or local bylaw. Get used to bugs or find another way. Companion planting is one way to attract beneficials, but rarely in sufficient numbers to do a lot of good, buying benficials from the garden centre, but you need a lot and regularly.

Re: The vegetable patch
 

I am overwhelmed by an urge to wanton pedantry.

What else is a phytotoxic substance than a poison to plants?

Re: The vegetable patch
 

Have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps try coherent English?

The reference was to someone using dish soap as an insecticide on plants as in it harms all plants- they were trying to kill bugs, not the plants (a herbicide does that), dish soap damages the plants more than the pests, except for two, Ivory and Dove, which don't harm the plants. Phytotoxicity in reference to plants is a substance that unintentionally harms the plant. Some substances are phytotoxic to some plants and not others, which is why some pesticide labels state what it should and should not be used on.

Re: The vegetable patch
 

I can't believe chemical fertilisers and pesticides aren't already banned.

IMHO the key to a problem free garden is diversity. Yes, companion planting is a part of that but the more diverse your garden the more balance there is between the problem insects and the beneficials and the less you have to even worry about anything.

Slugs can be a bit of a problem in BC's wet winters but they must be getting eaten by something in my garden because I have only seen 2 this year. I make sure to have some dry rock walls and rocky areas which attract the grass snakes who love slugs. Lots of flowers for the butterflies, ladybugs and dragon flies who eat the mosquitoes and other small flies.

Best way to deal with aphids... hose them off. The parasitic wasps will get them anyway.

It does help to live rurally. I was a bit perturbed about an ants nest in an old tree stump but then a pileated woodpecker came along and ate them all. Hah!

Oh , and the best way of all to not have bug problems on your plants is to have healthy plants which means creating healthy soil. Feed the soil (manure, leaf mold, compost, etc.) not the plant.

Re: The vegetable patch
 

Fertiliser is fertiliser, no matter what source it comes from, whether Nitrogen is synthesised from Air, Suplhate of Amonia or Urea, it's all N. The so called 'natural' fertilisers when applied in excess, as many farmers do, are causing significant pollution problems, air and ground and are not necessarily beneficial to the soil or crops planted in them, as there is no balance of nutrients applied. The so called 'chemical' fertilisers can be perfectly safe and often better for the soil and environment, as specific elements can be applied to replace those deficient in the soil and less is needed to do the job. Add organic matter into the soil to build up the humus content and structure of the soil and this produces a much more productive and soil.

Organic matter holds little nutritional value and if not sufficiency composted will 'lock' the nitrogen, which it uses for decomposition. Which is why controlled use of 'artificial' fertilisers are still the best way to go.

Slugs can be adequately controlled using ferrous sulphate (Safers Sluggo), it is not toxic to the soil or to wildlife and any that goes uneaten by slugs, adds iron to the soil. The old metaldehyde slug killers are toxic to any wild life that eats the dead slugs.

Re: The vegetable patch
 

Because nitrogen is required for the decomposition of fresh grass clippings and this is taken from the soil. Once it is composted, the breakdown cycle is complete so you are only adding nutrients to the soil.

Re: The vegetable patch
 

Rubbish!

Nitrogen is available in 4 forms. Only 2 of them - ammonium and nitrate - can be used directly by plants. Now granted the chemical composition of ammonium and nitrate are the same for both chemical and organic fertilisers, but the way they act in the soil is very different. The nitrogen cycle is very leaky because nitrogen has a negative charge, not attaching to the surface of clay or organic matter and worse, leaching into groundwater as a contaminant or to the air as a nitrogen gas.
However, when nitrogen is introduced through the slow breakdown of organic matter as the soil warms in the spring, it becomes soluble and so can be taken up by growing plants which then convert it back to organic forms. This is a good case for growing green cover crops in the winter that can be turned back into the soil to prevent nitrogen leaching.

I know about Safers Slug Bait but I am trying to limit the inputs to my garden.

Re: The vegetable patch
 

I haven't finished yet :lol:.

You say that organic compost has little nutritional value, or words to that effect. Again I say: Rubbbish!

Organic fertilisers may be less concentrated than artificial fertilisers but they break down slowly in the soil and are therefore available for a longer period of time. The soil web is a very complex mechanism. Adding N,P,K artificial fertilisers can easily upset this balance.

Since organic fertilisers are cheaper, more can be added. Organic fertilisers also provide a much broader spectrum of minerals and micronutrients which are essential to plant growth and health. They have the added functions of improving soil structure and health, are used as a mulch to prevent moisture loss, use much less energy to produce, cost less, recycle materials that would otherwise be waste and are much better for our future and our environment.

To me, healthy soil is soil that has lots of things living in it. Artificial fertilisers may help your plants grow for the season but they don't do anything to improve the health of the soil. I've seen lots of gardens with 'dead' soil. It gives me the creeps.

Speaking of rubbish, I only have 1 bag every 2-3 months. How about you? :sneaky:

Re: The vegetable patch
 

2 dumpsters a month of garbage , compost heap of about 20 cubic yards so far this year and 2 x 5 tonne trucks of recycled plastics, to March 31.

Re: The vegetable patch
 

I don't really care, it's my neighbor that uses the stuff, not me and I'm sure the police have better use of their time than checking on what private individuals are spraying on their plants in their gardens.

At the end of the day he can always say he is using a diluted solution to wash his plants. The state of his yard - anyone would believe him as he is a little crazy.

Re: The vegetable patch
 

Okay, got all that, no bug spray, use soap or just blast them off with a power washer...middle of spring and the trees will look like it is the middle of winter - no leaves? leafs? Who cares..:confused:

Now, do you have village shows where you show your Monster leeks and Onions off and do you have farm shops, I know, they are relatively new in UK 15 years or so and canada is 30 years behind the ark..blah blah...is there an opportunity to do this in Canada?

Re: The vegetable patch
 

Farmers markets and produce stores are here by the dozen, been around for decades. Also loads of people selling off their garden with a stall at the end of the drive.

Some produce is also governed by law under a quota system for commercial rowers, Tomatoes, Peppers, Lettuce, Cucumbers. Some of the hot house growers here have 100 acres+ under glass and we protect the quota system as it costs millions to set-up and get quota.