Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Hi all.

We just got our PPR a week ago and are looking forward to moving over to Vancouver. However we want to try and be prepared as much as possible.
I am sure that there will be many up's & downs but if any one can give me any advice I would appreciate it.

A bit of background info: Me (age 42), Wife (41), 2 kids (14 & 7). No jobs lined up, but hope to be able to find something suitable. Hope to be able to buy a house outright but that’s roughly it.

As I said all advice would be appreciated, however Good, Bad & Ugly.:)

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Great naturist beach!

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

GOOD: the great outdoors on your doorstep

BAD: the cost of day-to day living

UGLY: Cambie at rush hour

I hope you have visited to get some idea about the place, the costs, the opportunities etc. There is lots of great information on the forum about whether to buy a car, how to get licenced, what housing costs, how much groceries will cost so have a good old browse and when you've done that, explore the searching options.

There are currently lots of minimum wage jobs available so you should be able to pick something up to help eke out your savings (bring lots of those!) if you arrive with nothing lined up. Depending on your skills, you may also walk into a relevant job - I have heard both sides of the loads of work/no work argument since I arrived.

Most of all, remember why you're making the move and keep remembering those things when times get tough. Enjoy!

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Thanks for the posts so far. Is the cost of living really that bad? I'm a secondary teacher here so I recon I will have to re-train. Anyone got a ballpark figure of the amount of salary required to have a relatively comfortable lifestyle?

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

In a not so recent thread opinion hovered around the $80k and up level for a family of 4 IIRC. Vancouver is expensive.

Ill see if I can dig out a link.

Could have been this one
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387315
or this one
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384500

No time to check now, Ive got to get home in time to take Junior skating.

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Thanks for the info.
How are property prices doing generally? has there been any reduction/fall? I know that BC has seen huge gains over the years but I wonder if they have stalled as in the states and to some degree over here.

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

BC house prices have stalled-sort of. They aren't going up by 20% or whatever but Vancouver is still crazy expensive. A house on the west side can easliy cost 1 million dollars!

I grew up in vancouver but am very happy to be in the more sane (some may say boring!) Victoira.
What I like about Vancouver: Stanley Park, great shopping and restaurants.


What I hate; TRAFFIC! So many great things to do-but such a hassle getting to them.CRIME! Property and car theft is huge due to an awful, out of control drug problem. My whole family live in vancouver- VERY nice areas (Shaugnessay, Kerrisdale, Dunbar and West Van) and every one of them as been broken into at least once.

The rain- it rains twice as much in Vancouver as Victoria due to the rainshadow effect (I don't understand it but I love it).

I guess I just miss the Vancouver of the 70's-if you didn't know it then perhaps it looks great to you now.
Best of luck- make sure to visit Vancouver Island!

(Vancouver on a sunny day at about 10am on a Sunday is paradise!) :o

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Holy sh#t !! those two threads (apart from being very long, and hugely informative), have really got me concerned about our plans to move to Canada :confused:

Yes, I realise that there are some posters out there that don't seem to believe that salary expectations are important and that equipping yourself with the correct atttitude is what counts......and I accept that for some that may well hold true, however for myself, and I'm sure many others, income is a deciding factor.

Myself and my wife have a joint income of approximately £65k, however this is offset (dramatically) by a £125k mortgage (2 bed flat), student loan repayments (both of us) and £600/month chidcare costs for our baby daughter. Our standard of living is comfortable, by which I mean that we can afford to eat well (we cook...a lot, and ingredients can (sadly) cost more than 'ready-meals'), and can afford to occassionally eat out (once every few months); additionally we run a 6 year old Golf TDI (which my wife uses to get to work and also drop off our daughter at childcare; also very fuel efficient), and a 4 year old Honda Fireblade which I commute on (cheaper to run than a car and couldn't face the 1 hour plus commute each way in a car - takes 25 minutes on bike :D )

We believed (possibly naively) that we could exist in much the same manner in Canada, but with the benefit of mountains and snow within reach, but now I'm not so sure - if i earned the Canadian equivalent of my salary could I afford the canadian eqivalent of my current mortgage, i.e. $280k, and would that be sufficient for a 3 bed house in a 'reasonable' neighbourhood?

I really don't want to believe that our situation, and standard of living, would reduce if we moved to Vancouver :blink:

cheers
stu

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Stu
Not sure where peeps think they need $80 up a year to live for a family of four. We have nothing like that coming in and we are living veryyyyyy comfortably on VI. Perhaps there is a big differnece between here and Vancouver. :blink:

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Reading through some other posts and comments, you could have a point :unsure: We hadn't originally considered VI, but it's looking increasingly attractive.

stu

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Based on what you have said, I cannot see any financial advantage to moving, unless you both have higher than average paid jobs lined up, that you are definitely walking into. Childcare for a young child can costs anything from $800 up - but that is a larger chunk from a $Can salary than your £600. Vancouver is very expensive to live and no, $280k will not get you anything in a nice area close to town, unless you live in a small two bed apartment. www.mls.ca if you would like to check yourself. Europe has snow and mountains within reach....travel is very cheap there compared to here. Look up any destination in Canada flying from Vancouver.

www.aircanada.com or www.westjet.com to give you an idea.

Vancouver is a nice place just to visit, I enjoyed it when I came as a tourist.

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Having spent quite a while looking thru www.mls.ca I would agree with dingbat that $280K isnt going to get you much in the vancouver area, (it will get you less in Calgary oddly enough).
Flights within Canada (and even in to the States) are similarly priced wether Van or Cal, BUT flights to asia are better.

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

I think Stu meant he could afford a 280,000 mortage.

Sadly a decent house in any area of the city proper is going to be over $600,000. If you are willing to live outside of the actual city- say Burnaby (very nice) then maybe you could find something.
Victoria is very expensive too. You can though get a very nice house here in the 500,000 range.
I hope your dreams to move here aren't dashed by all this. Look outside the lower mainland and you can do much much better.

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

These are my observations having arrived in January. We were working in London previously (couple with no kids), so you can adjust things as necessary.

Salary-wise, IF you can get a job at the same level, you should expect to be earning around 40-50% less than in London. I say IF because they're pretty parochial over here, so if you don't have "Canadian experience" or the correct paper credentials, then you'll likely have to regress a good few years in career terms.

Property prices certainly seem pretty high here; although renting is a lot more affordable - I'd say like-for-like prices are probably around a third of those in London. If you're not obsessed with owning your own home that would probably be a much cheaper option.

Groceries are probably about the same - so in real terms a fair bit more expensive. The trick with Safeway seems to be to wait until they have things on offer then stock up. We don't have a car so haven't really ventured beyond downtown for shopping. It was pretty when we first arrived - all we could find was the local "gourmet" "organic" outlet which was outrageously expensive. Booze is fairly similarly priced - Australian/American wine seems a fair bit cheaper than European.

Eating out is pretty cheap - especially sushi. A day's skiing is a lot cheaper.

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

I'm in agreement with pretty much all of the above posts.

One more thing to add to the "more expensive in Vancouver list" - car insurance - our car insurance costs have tripled since moving from the UK - yikes. (they were even higher when we lived in Toronto last year - but that may be a good indication of the state of driving over there :eek: )

There's no getting around it, Vancouver is a very expensive place to live. We've lived in Vancouver and Toronto and comparing the two:
- groceries are more expensive in Vancouver,
- house prices are crazy-high in Vancouver- anything with 2 bedrooms (approx 800 sq ft) anywhere close to downtown are going for at around $400k - the market has slowed down (a bit) since the frenzy of last year but prices are not dropping by any means.
- wages are slightly lower in Vancouver. Many people we know have two (or three) jobs just to make ends meet.
- utilities are pretty much the same, very slightly less in Vancouver due to not needing AC all summer and heating for the rest of the year.:)

You may want to check out Monster jobs.ca and Workopolis.com - choose Vancouver as your search criteria and take a look at the range of salaries offered - it's a pretty good indication of both the number and types of jobs and salaries that are on offer.

On the plus side - Vancouver, in our experience, is a fantastic place to live - we've been here for most of the past three years and we love it. For a city, there is little noticable pollution, we're smack bang between the mountains and the ocean - if you love hiking, biking, skiing, hiking, sailing, shopping, mad fashions, rain and complaining that we're always overlooked by Ottawa - then this is a great place to live.

Good luck with your plans

Nic

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Hey Bazzz - where downtown are you? - we could be next door neighbours! :D

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Whilst I'm not going to disagree with the above comments, I do think it comes down to your own circumstances. The "canadian equivalent" of your UK salary is going to have a BIG impact on whether you find Vancouver more, or less expensive then the UK. Also where you're moving from in the UK is going to have an impact.

For us, well we're slightly better off now living in Vancouver, than we were living in London (that's not why we moved though). Basically comparing costs from living in London to Vancouver:

Salaries:
Both me & my wife earn about the same as in London. ie roughly 2 times GBP salary = salary in CA$. Taxes are similar to the UK.

Rent:
$200 a month cheaper than London, and we live downtown within walking distance to work. In the UK had an 1 hour commute on the train/tube.

Car Insurance:
About $175 more a month than the UK (bloody ICBC)! We do have an SUV here though, and only had a 1.4 VW polo at home.

Petrol/Gas:
Bigger cars, longer distances, but cheaper fuel. Don't count on saving much.

Travel:
We both walk to work, so no travel card - thats $600 a month less than UK.

Utility Bills:
Cable/internet/phone is around $120/mth. Can't remember what we were paying in the UK, but don't think it was 60 quid, so this is costing us more.

Groceries:
Some things are cheaper, some more expensive. On the whole we pay about the same as home.

Beer/wine: Not going to estimate how much a month :ohmy: but seems to cost a good 10% more than the UK.

Eating out:
Cheaper for fast food. For a good restaurant, by the time you've ordered a bottle of wine, added on tax and tips, it really isn't much cheaper from what I remember (it's been a couple of years since I ate out in London though!).

House prices:
Vancouver is expensive for Canada. However, downtown Vancouver is a bargain in comparison to "downtown" London. Prices in the suburbs are also much cheaper. A nice house in North Vancouver will set you back $800k, but you wouldn't even dream of looking at equivalent property in London - how much would a nice detached home cost in Clapham, Wimbledon, West Hampstead???

IMO if you manage to find equivilent paying work (and thats the tricky part), then everything else will fall into place.:thumbup:

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

We were in Yaletown for our first month - a very nice building, but the location didn't really suit us. Now we're out towards the Coal Harbour side of things; a couple of blocks away from Stanley Park, but also quite close to Denman and Robson for the fun stuff. The Mrs has a 15-minute walk to work.

We pay a bit more on the utilities for phone/internet/cable - "freeview" isn't really an option here without a ridiculous antenna - but if you like football, the basic digital package from Shaw will get you more Premiership matches than all the Sky packages and the BBC combined. Hydro (electricity) on a condo certainly seems a lot cheaper than for an equivalent sized flat in London.

But Rob_999 makes a very good point about location. In terms of proportion of our net income we're paying roughly the same for our downtown condo as we would be on an ex-council flat in Tooting Bec (we know because we're renting our out back in London). Vastly improved environment, less aggro, much cleaner and a view of mountains. I can't wait for the summer!

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

I know what you mean, Victoria too... they both use to have so much more character. I suspect the same can be said of a lot of places though.

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

I think Victoria still does retain some charm and character- it was a pretty dull place in the 70's and I think it is better now. Mind you the growth in the burbs is another thing all together.The traffic and parking are much more mangeable here. I park downtown with no problem and it is super cheap. .50 an hour!Free after 6pm and on Sundays. Not a good way to promote transit.

Having just spent ten days in the UK I must say I found restaurants prices to be at least twice they are here. I had to pretend the prices were in dollars not pounds so as not to freak out. I ate in middle range priced restaurants.
I had a coffee and a muffin in Costa's (I think that was the name-somethng like that- a coffee chain in Britain) and it came to 4 pounds 75. Had the equivalent here and it came to $4.75.

I went to Tesco with a friend and found the prices to be about 20-30% more there for most thingswith dairy products being about the same.Wine was quite abit cheaper. Very unscientific- I had just arrived and was whisked off to the grocery store in my jetlagged state! :blink:

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

I'm sure I could get myself into trouble here with some of the other posters, so I won't go off (too much) on how much I hate Vancouver ;).

I'm born and raised Vancouverite. I have lived also in London and near Dublin as well. It really depends on what you like and how you want to live. There are a few people on this board who live in the downtown core, and from what I can tell they have a fairly positive experience. I think that if you are coming from a place like London then the downtown core is going to be your best bet, especially if you can buy your flat outright. The farther you get from there (especially if you work downtown) the more miserable you might find things.

I find the transit here pretty sub-standard, especially in comparison to London. The food is expensive. The housing market is a bit ridiculous too. My husband an I live in Richmond, which is about 30-40 minutes from Downtown. We have a 2 bedroom flat and pay through the nose for it - approx $1400 a month.

The other thing you might want to consider is just how "boring" it is here compared with England. I hear lots of Brits telling me how bored they are here because of the sleepy west coast way of life. I've heard many compare it to early retirement.

There are positives, as mentioned before like the mountain sports etc. Personally, I have no interest in the outdoor stuff so I can't wait to get back to England!

Good luck with whatever you end up doing... if this is your dream then chase it!

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

Thanks for all the posts, there is so much to think about. Can anyone advice me on good schools in Vancouver as this will probably be the deciding factor in choosing an area to live in.

I am prepared to consider all of the lower mainland area, so all advice gladly appreciated.
:)

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

I agree. Why on earth would anyone choose to emigrate to Vancouver, unless they're into outdoor stuff?

As a city its okay - but nothing special. It's the location that does it for us :thumbsup:

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

See all the other threads about schooling in Canada:)


School selection barely registers on the radar as a factor for most Canadians choosing a house, the general perception is that its the kid that's the main variable when it comes to getting a good education, not the school. With no league tables there is nothing to drive the UK "best school" parental neurosis.

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

You'll have to enlighten me here - what are these exciting pursuits that people get up to in England that you can't do in Vancouver?

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

I am interested to know too.

Mind you London is one of THE most exciting cities I have ever been to but living there full time??? I would miss the space and laid back nature of life here. To each his/her own.
If Brits think Vancouver is slow what would they make of Saskatoon, Edmonton, Victoria, Ottawa......:ohmy:

My daughters went to schools around the province and in different neighbourhoods in different cities- they recieved an excellent education and all of them. Find a neighbourhood you like and feel comfortable in and chances are the school will be very good.

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

It's not really for me to say, as I am not the one who put it that way. I do think Vancouver is boring though. There's not as much to do or going on. I don't really know how to put it in words, but there's just much more of an excitement about living in the UK. My experience is only with London mind you. But check out these couple of threads that mention the retirement thing as well as other general complaints about living in Canada compared with living in the UK - there are a fair few of us on there that are in British Columbia!
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418689
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427896

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

I do not find Vancouver boring at all.
The Main Library has free/by donation lectures , exhibitions
from authors and artists locally and internationally.

The upcoming events are usually posted on
the notice board at every local library.

At work ,we have 2 physicians that are authors.
The family practise doc. writes books on alterantive heath.
The ER doc. writes mystery novels:lol: and is laughing all the way
to the bank.

The Georgia Straight magazine which is free ,is a good
resource about events happening in Vancouver.Here is the online link.
http://www.straight.com/article/time-out-events

I think Vancouver has a lot to offer,just a matter of exploring
and find out what works for you.

Hope that helps.
Yoong

Re: Vancouver: THE GOOD, BAD & UGLY
 

I have to say, I absolutely LOVE living here in Vancouver. I actually moved here from the States in October (although I am originally from the UK). I was lucky enough to walk straight into a job within the first 2 weeks - pretty much the same work I was doing in the US. The drawback, it paid about $20,000 less - luckily I had done a fair bit of research and was under no illusion that I would be getting a job with the same pay rate as I had been getting! My husband hasn't been so lucky and has been applying for work and going to interviews since we arrived - he rarely even has people respond to his resume, despite the fact that in the US he was in retail management, which seems to be an open door in terms of employment here. We are unsure as to whether the problem is lack of Canadian experience, or just the fact that he is "over qualified" with his masters degree....Again, we had done enough research to realize that we may not walk into jobs, so came over with lots of savings - we are actually not having a hard time surviving on one income, only dipping into savings for luxuries and treats like eating out occasionally. We rent an apartment downtown, and in terms of comparing rental costs, we find Vancouver far less expensive than the US. Forget trying to buy for a while, though - we looked into it and couldn't justify paying $300,000 and up for a tiny condo! It also seems to be getting harder to qualify for a mortgage - our guy told us that we would need a combined income of around $85,000 just to qualify (maybe that is what an earlier poster was referring to when he mentioned that you would need $80,000 to live comfortably???) We haven;t done much research into schools, but childcare is very hard to find in the downtown section. We looked at a few places that were around $1100 a month, but with 18 month waitlists! In terms of teaching here (I was a teacher in the UK) you would need to get relicensed in order to teach in government schools - not sure about private. I think it is in pretty high demand, so if you go the licensure, you probably wouldn't have too much trouble getting work...I would definintely look into it before making the choice to move, though! Also, looking on the bright side, with the pound being still relatively strong, you will actually get more for your money when you first relocate. We ended up losing out big time as the US dollar dropped so drastically! There is a lot to do in Vancouver, even if you don;t like the outdoor stuff. Stanley Park is amazing, and the seawall continues to enchant me. There are lots of museums and cultural/arts activities, shopping, markets, mountains....need I go on? Despite the rain (and the freak snow this year) we have been able to get out and do things every weekend. Vancouver is definitely not somewhere to move with the expectation that you will make more money or live cheaply, but it's an amazing city and if you do the homework/research it's pretty easy to figure out if it would work for you. Good luck!

Tracey