magnumpi

Wrong costume

Partially discharged

I think he grew it so that we try and take him seriously before he apologizes for something that he had no role in, or did his political party and often times anyone alive today. Rinse and repeat.

scrubbedexpat091

According to CNN Iran confirmed they shot the plane down unintentionally.

spouse of scouse

Dear Lord. All those innocent people, dead 'by mistake'.

Jingsamichty

There was no mistake about it... Trump deliberately assassinated Soleimani despite sound advice that it would lead to increased violence.

Almost Canadian

No. The blame for this incident lies solely with those that pulled the trigger or turned on the piece of equipment.

I appreciate you don't like Trump, but to suggest that he was in any way to blame for something that was an "accident" is nonsense.

scrubbedexpat091

I posted this in tio thread but figured it would be good here too. Not sure what made anyone think the Ukraine Airlines flight was a threat considering from what has been reported, the plane wasn't off course on departure, and was following the same path as the flights that departed both before and after the Ukraine flight.



Grey = Flights that took off before Flight 752

Orange ish color = Flights that took off after Flight 752

scrubbedexpat099

dave_j

I think that you're in danger of seeing the event in isolation and blaming, as always, the man charged with actually doing the job. The real culprits, those who play politics, are never questioned, never put in this position. They simply give orders, they never get their clean hands dirty.
I suspect you'd agree that the 'button pusher' didn't wake up that morning with the idea of downing a civilian aircraft but found himself in a position where decisions needed to be made. Either through inadequate training, system failure, fright or simple human error, he made a decision that downed an aircraft.
It's not difficult to compare this action with the action the man on the Vincennes took and that comparison is one that bares closer examination. Each 'button pusher' was backed by a system that failed and the result and the reasoning behind the decision making that led to it are similar although the outcomes are proving to be wildly different. The US has never apologised for the Vincennes incident although you can argue their system failure was worse.
Yes, you can blame the man who pulls the trigger because that simplistically draws a line under the event, but the more difficult questions, those that could prevent future events such as these, are never asked because the answers highlight who's really responsible.

I buy a hammer, I buy a nail, I pick up the hammer, I pick up the nail, I swing the hammer, I close my eyes, I hit my thumb.
Which action led to my shouting 'Ow'?
None. There is a sequence of actions from the decision to purchase of the hammer and nail to the lack of expertise in knowing how to use it that could have prevented it. Simply choosing the last act is much too simplistic.

BristolUK

@ dave_j

How's your thumb now?

dave_j

Throbbing.. wish I'd never bought that hammer!

Rete

Call me stupid but what is the Vincennes incident. I googled it and all I got was travel info. Why does the US have to apologize?

spouse of scouse

You're not stupid, it was a long time ago. Google Iran flight 655.

dave_j

Try googling "Iran Air Flight 655" or "USS Vincennes".
It was an incident where the USS Vincennes, while in Iranian waters, shot down a civilian airliner in 1988, wierdly similar to the current event. The Vincennes was a state of the art US Aegis warship. It's a classic examination of system failure, well worth a detailed read.

scrubbedexpat142

Exactly!