Trump Trump Trump

Old Mar 9th 2018, 11:14 pm
  #226  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

I've never understood why the USA needed to spend quite as much as it does in South Korea. NK was never going to attack again (China wouldn't let it) so Trump is simply making a move to reduce the need for US presence in SK. Perfect timing to use NK's utter poverty as a chip to disarm them. Trump is a colossal arsehole but that doesn't mean that the US Generals are always right.

Kim Jong Un has played it perfectly on his side - build some something unnecessary to give away (nukes) in order to achieve dialogue and future support with integration.

The only alternative to the above is that Kim Jong Un is genuinely batshit crazy and will capture Trump when he visits and then launch a nuclear war. Which would be a little disappointing
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Old Mar 10th 2018, 2:08 am
  #227  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
The only alternative to the above is that Kim Jong Un is genuinely batshit crazy and will capture Trump when he visits and then launch a nuclear war.
No crazier than the other stuff going on... What an ending to the film. What shall we call it? "Trump, You're Fried!"
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Old Mar 10th 2018, 2:23 am
  #228  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

Originally Posted by Shard
Yes, it's pretty amazing news. I heard that Kim saw opportunity in dealing with a straight shooter like Trump. It might be a genuine opportunity for peace on the Korean peninsula. For all Trump's faults, he might actually achieve something worthwhile.
I'm not sure that firing randomly in any direction qualifies a person as a straight-shooter.
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Old Mar 10th 2018, 10:32 am
  #229  
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Originally Posted by Teaandtoday5
I'm not sure that firing randomly in any direction qualifies a person as a straight-shooter.
Fair comment

One analyst was saying the negotiation is likely to me NK de-nuclearlisation in return for SK ending its military alliance with the USA. An interesting scenario. Seems unlikely.
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Old Mar 10th 2018, 2:11 pm
  #230  
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What wrong with the meeting? I support it. I think threatening China with tariffs may have helped pushed forward this meeting.
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Old Mar 10th 2018, 6:00 pm
  #231  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

Originally Posted by NYer
What wrong with the meeting? I support it. I think threatening China with tariffs may have helped pushed forward this meeting.
I agree. I suspect that Trump's initial gut feeling was that the meeting would be a good idea. The problem is that he's surrounded by career politicians and military advisers, all of whom have axes to grind that promote doing nothing.

Any politician who openly supports the initiative has his constituents to answer to and the accusation that concessions were made to a leftist dictator don't go down well in small town america and provide grist for the TV, ie "This man supported a communist dictator and wants a nuclear North Korea, do you really want him as your Senator" etc etc.

Any general who hopes to get a cushy number in the defense industry is going to be looked on unfavourably when the world becomes a safer place. Fear, fear of everyone else and the knowledge that everybody hates us has kept the US military machine gobbling up huge amounts of taxpayers and borrowed dollars for decades, peace is bad for business.

So no doubt Trump has every man and his dog shouting in his ear that the meeting could be bad for his image and that he's being taken for a ride so perhaps we could drop a few spanners into the works, like for example asking the DPRK to provide "concrete and verifiable action" to demonstrate its commitment to denuclearization before any meeting takes place, and all before May.

I suspect that like demanding Iraq provide proof that they had no WMD, the DPRK will never be able to convince those that matter that it's done enough, an opportunity in the balance. Ironically it can only be a man like Trump who'll be able to resist such pressures and push it through.
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Old Mar 12th 2018, 6:49 pm
  #232  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

Originally Posted by NYer
What wrong with the meeting? I support it. I think threatening China with tariffs may have helped pushed forward this meeting.
What's wrong is Trump's (and his acolytes') complete naivety when it comes to dealing with N Korea.

I listened to an interview over the weekend with a South Korean diplomat of several years' standing, who took apart what the North Korean leaders were reported as having said. He pointed out that this is exactly the same rhetoric that has been used time and again in the past (denuclearization linked to, effectively, a complete withdrawal of US troops from both Korea and Japan, a removal of the US ballistic missile defence shield from the whole peninsula, and so on and so on).

Trump's team, unaware of the history and unwilling to listen to advice from anybody who actually knows what they're talking about, has walked right into Kim's play.

Knobend.
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Old Mar 12th 2018, 8:08 pm
  #233  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

What the last 70 years has taught us is that the 'conventional' approach to the korean issue, coupled with reckless use of force elsewhere in the world, has only resulted in a dangerous stalemate and an unwritten threat that the DPRK is next in line for Pax America.

A different approach is needed IF there's a genuine will to resolve the crisis, and listening to many commentators it seems that there isn't, there's apparently not much to win and too much to lose by reducing tension... except of course if you're korean and staring catastrophe in the face.
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Old Mar 14th 2018, 10:58 am
  #234  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
What's wrong is Trump's (and his acolytes') complete naivety when it comes to dealing with N Korea.

I listened to an interview over the weekend with a South Korean diplomat of several years' standing, who took apart what the North Korean leaders were reported as having said. He pointed out that this is exactly the same rhetoric that has been used time and again in the past (denuclearization linked to, effectively, a complete withdrawal of US troops from both Korea and Japan, a removal of the US ballistic missile defence shield from the whole peninsula, and so on and so on).

Trump's team, unaware of the history and unwilling to listen to advice from anybody who actually knows what they're talking about, has walked right into Kim's play.

Knobend.
Sorry you don't get to have it both ways. For over a year we've listened to "Trump is a dangerous warmonger, he won't talk with Kim Jong Un" to now "Trump is dangerous, he's going to talk to Kim Jong Un!"

By the way Trump is not shooting randomly on this, the South Korean envoys flew to Washington and recommended he do this. I do believe they know more about it than some talking head on TV.

The elitist left is its own worst enemy on Trump. The reflexive opposition, no matter what the topic, and constant nasty hyperbole have set expectations so low among the general public that Trump can't help but exceed them.
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Old Mar 14th 2018, 1:18 pm
  #235  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

Originally Posted by carcajou
The elitist left is its own worst enemy on Trump.
Perhaps so, but who or what is the "elitist left"?

I used to think the Russians were the left but Trump's in some sort of alliance with them so that would make him left too. He is an elitist, of course, so perhaps it's him. I can certainly believe that he's his own worst enemy.
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Old Mar 14th 2018, 1:58 pm
  #236  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

Originally Posted by carcajou
Sorry you don't get to have it both ways. For over a year we've listened to "Trump is a dangerous warmonger, he won't talk with Kim Jong Un" to now "Trump is dangerous, he's going to talk to Kim Jong Un!"

By the way Trump is not shooting randomly on this, the South Korean envoys flew to Washington and recommended he do this. I do believe they know more about it than some talking head on TV.

The elitist left is its own worst enemy on Trump. The reflexive opposition, no matter what the topic, and constant nasty hyperbole have set expectations so low among the general public that Trump can't help but exceed them.
Ah. Just in case there was any doubt where you stand. Thanks for clarifying your bias for us.
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Old Mar 14th 2018, 2:05 pm
  #237  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

I voted for Clinton, Obama twice, and Kerry before that.

Calling a spade a spade is not "bias." The system is broken and you are delusional if you think the current crop of Democrats (or Republicans) is going to lead the country out of it.

The current darned-if-Trump-does, darned-if-Trump-doesn't logic is reflective of just how insane the situation is. You don't care about the result in real world terms at all, it is just barracking for your political "team."

The polar opposite people would be pulling the same darned-if-Clinton-does, darned-if-Clinton-doesn't thing had she won, and they are just as crazy.

A meeting between the US President and North Korea is the closest we've gotten to a breakthrough in 24 years. I don't think that should be scuttled because you're not a Republican. Neither am I, and I don't care.
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Old Mar 14th 2018, 2:43 pm
  #238  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

Don't let any pre-conditions like de-nuclearisation or withdrawl of American forces get in the way. Kim's been having fun doing a little entertaining lately and making good press out of it, but I suspect the concessions each want are going to be a deal killer from the start. Trump thinks he has absolute power because he can fire a cabinet minister he doesn't like; Kim could have his shot with an anti-aircraft gun. Representatives of the DPRK will make it plain that a blockade shall be considered an act of war.
Let the presidents stay home with their wives and mistresses and send in the businessmen to meet and discuss re-opening Kaesong Industrial Area and allowing relatives from the south to visit family the DPRK (in the spirit of unification shown at the olympics). Exploit that good will instead of wasting time on threats.
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Old Mar 14th 2018, 3:20 pm
  #239  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

Originally Posted by carcajou
Sorry you don't get to have it both ways. For over a year we've listened to "Trump is a dangerous warmonger, he won't talk with Kim Jong Un" to now "Trump is dangerous, he's going to talk to Kim Jong Un!"
I don't recall any criticism of Trump for "not talking" let alone not talking with Kim Jong Un. Surely the criticism was all about what Trump was actually saying.
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Old Mar 14th 2018, 4:13 pm
  #240  
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Default Re: Trump Trump Trump

Originally Posted by BristolUK
I don't recall any criticism of Trump for "not talking" let alone not talking with Kim Jong Un. Surely the criticism was all about what Trump was actually saying.
will the broken record get to play B side with a second term in office- that is what folks should be wondering

here today gone tomorrow, next in line, please step forward
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