Trudeau

Old Sep 20th 2019, 7:28 pm
  #136  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by dbd33
I think that, for Conservatives, racism and homophobia are routine and acceptable.
. . . and your evidence for this is what? Or are you just engaging in the same lazy, stereotype troping of a large group of people that you are accusing conservatives of?

Tumbling_Dice is correct; hypocrisy is definitely the theme here.

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Old Sep 20th 2019, 7:29 pm
  #137  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice
Mate, all due respect, I have read some drivel in my time, but that takes some beating.

Hypocrisy is the point here... Trudeau, and those like him (such as social media rent-a-mobs), crucify people for past "mistakes". Trudeau groped some wee lass, didn't he? He has been found in breech of ethical standards, hasn't he? He has seemingly mocked indigenous people, has he not? He sacked two women from his caucus, did he not? And he is an embarrassment on the world stage. He wants to have his cake and eat it re oil pipelines. I am not yet a citizen so, frankly, I do not care. But any suggestion you have that Trudeau is a fit PM over a Conservative, on this basis, is ludicrous.

I could not give a stuff if the Conservatives benefit or not, but it is the Liberal lot that started out with the character attacks and bringing up past "mistakes". There is nothing homphobic, for example, about supporting the traditional view of marriage. Believe it or not, you can have that view and also support the basic human dignity of LGBTQ people.

And, finally, on Scheer will stand by those with racist, homophobic past. Are you standing by Tudeau with his racist past, his misogynistic past and present, and his breech of ethics? Catch yourself on... If Trudeau has set the bar high, he himself needs to meet it at least, or he has to go down like he and his ilk would have others do.
Fantastic post.
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Old Sep 20th 2019, 8:29 pm
  #138  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by carcajou
Fantastic post.
What planet are you on?
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Old Sep 20th 2019, 8:55 pm
  #139  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice

Hypocrisy is the point here...

There is nothing homphobic, for example, about supporting the traditional view of marriage. Believe it or not, you can have that view and also support the basic human dignity of LGBTQ people.

.
Presumably the 'basic dignity' does not extend to marriage ? With all due respect, non-citizen who doesn't care, I think the award for highest drivel content goes to you.
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Old Sep 20th 2019, 9:48 pm
  #140  
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Default Re: Trudeau

I support LGBTQ marriage, and think it should have come decades ago. I can do that, while understanding and respecting religious viewpoints - such as those of the large numbers of migrants from the Middle East and Africa where homosexuality is criminalised on religious grounds, with overwhelming public support. In Australia's same-sex marriage referendum - what neighbourhoods do you think had the highest opposition?

Do you see the trap? If you support LGBTQ marriage, are you anti-Muslim? Or if you respect Muslim points of view are you anti-LGBTQ? Or if you swap out Muslim with almost any other religion? Absurd. You can be pro-LGBTQ marriage and a Friend of Islam as I am, or with any other religion or whatever.

The shallow ''boxes" some of the Trudeau ilk set to try and label people - with his tacit and sometimes overt encouragement - cheapen the dialogue, dumb down public discourse and set paradoxes that are bound to consume those who engage with it. That the cheerleaders of Internet mob hysteria (and there are several examples in this Forum) don't realise that the mob could - and does - change and turn on them at any time, for any reason - real or imagined - is one of the great ironies of the times we live in.

Because, of course I also don't believe Trudeau intended to be racist with what he did. But he has set that standard now and he has to live with it. What would Trudeau be tweeting if it was some other politician? Move on, nothing to see here? Come on.

The world is a lot more complex than a lot of people like to accept.

Last edited by carcajou; Sep 20th 2019 at 9:54 pm.
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Old Sep 20th 2019, 9:55 pm
  #141  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by carcajou
I support LGBTQ marriage, and think it should have come decades ago. I can do that, while understanding and respecting religious viewpoints - such as those of the large numbers of migrants from the Middle East and Africa where homosexuality is criminalised on religious grounds, with overwhelming public support. In Australia's same-sex marriage referendum - what neighbourhoods do you think had the highest opposition?

Do you see the trap? If you support LGBTQ marriage, are you anti-Muslim? Or if you respect Muslim points of view are you anti-LGBTQ? Or if you swap out Muslim with almost any other religion? Absurd. You can be pro-LGBTQ marriage and a Friend of Islam as I am, or with any other religion or whatever.

The shallow ''boxes" some of the Trudeau ilk set to try and label people - with his tacit and sometimes overt encouragement - cheapen the dialogue, dumb down public discourse and set paradoxes that are bound to consume those who engage with it. That the cheerleaders of Internet mob hysteria (and there are several examples in this Forum) don't realise that the mob could - and does - change and turn on them at any time, for any reason - real or imagined - is one of the great ironies of the times we live in.

Because, of course I also don't believe Trudeau intended to be racist with what he did. But he has set that standard now and he has to live with it.

The world is a lot more complex than a lot of people like to accept.
Well there's the rub, I'm very anti-Islam, and most religions in fact. I don't respect religious viewpoints as they're absurd and often politically motivated.
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Old Sep 20th 2019, 9:56 pm
  #142  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Shard
Well there's the rub, I'm very anti-Islam, and most religions in fact. I don't respect religious viewpoints as they're absurd and often politically motivated.
Atheism, if that is what you are implying you are, is your prerogative.
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Old Sep 20th 2019, 9:59 pm
  #143  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by carcajou
Atheism, if that is what you are implying you are, is your prerogative.
I didn't know some kind of label was compulsory.
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Old Sep 20th 2019, 11:02 pm
  #144  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Shard
I didn't know some kind of label was compulsory.
Not compulsory.
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Old Sep 21st 2019, 12:20 am
  #145  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice
Mate, all due respect, I have read some drivel in my time, but that takes some beating.
Thank you, one doesn't like to do things by halves.


Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice
Hypocrisy is the point here... Trudeau, and those like him (such as social media rent-a-mobs), crucify people for past "mistakes". Trudeau groped some wee lass, didn't he? He has been found in breech of ethical standards, hasn't he? He has seemingly mocked indigenous people, has he not? He sacked two women from his caucus, did he not? And he is an embarrassment on the world stage. He wants to have his cake and eat it re oil pipelines. I am not yet a citizen so, frankly, I do not care. But any suggestion you have that Trudeau is a fit PM over a Conservative, on this basis, is ludicrous..
Yes, he seems to be guilty of all those things. And yes, he's still better than a conservative; Ford, Johnson, Trump - they stand for personal enrichment at the expense of the people they govern. Such leaders are only advantageous to their immediate circle.

Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice
I could not give a stuff if the Conservatives benefit or not, but it is the Liberal lot that started out with the character attacks and bringing up past "mistakes". There is nothing homphobic, for example, about supporting the traditional view of marriage. Believe it or not, you can have that view and also support the basic human dignity of LGBTQ people...
Opposing gay marriage is definitively homophobic, It's denying equal rights. I don't think people should not be denied equal rights due to things they cannot control such as colour, orientation or disability. Where equality clashes with religion it's the religion that should be denied.

[
Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice
And, finally, on Scheer will stand by those with racist, homophobic past. Are you standing by Tudeau with his racist past, his misogynistic past and present, and his breech of ethics? Catch yourself on... If Trudeau has set the bar high, he himself needs to meet it at least, or he has to go down like he and his ilk would have others do.
This seems tp ne repetition. He's guilty of all manner of offenses by his own standards. In the main they're not offenses by Scheer's standards so it's a bit rich for Scheer to have dug up this dirt. He does make Trudeau look personally insufferable but we knew that already. "Is thus all you got" would have been a better response than a grovelling apology.

Last edited by dbd33; Sep 21st 2019 at 12:40 am.
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Old Sep 21st 2019, 12:27 am
  #146  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Apologies for all the formatting errors. Driving a manual car.
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Old Sep 21st 2019, 1:21 pm
  #147  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by carcajou
Atheism, if that is what you are implying you are, is your prerogative.
Or Agnostic... or Gnostic..

To each their own.

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Old Sep 22nd 2019, 9:23 am
  #148  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Shard
Presumably the 'basic dignity' does not extend to marriage ? With all due respect, non-citizen who doesn't care, I think the award for highest drivel content goes to you.
I note a distinct lack of any engagement with the points raised about Trudeau, though I am not surprised. The limitations in your own thinking about the issue of human dignity are your own.
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Old Sep 22nd 2019, 9:45 am
  #149  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by dbd33
Thank you, one doesn't like to do things by halves.




Yes, he seems to be guilty of all those things. And yes, he's still better than a conservative; Ford, Johnson, Trump - they stand for personal enrichment at the expense of the people they govern. Such leaders are only advantageous to their immediate circle.



Opposing gay marriage is definitively homophobic, It's denying equal rights. I don't think people should not be denied equal rights due to things they cannot control such as colour, orientation or disability. Where equality clashes with religion it's the religion that should be denied.

[

This seems tp ne repetition. He's guilty of all manner of offenses by his own standards. In the main they're not offenses by Scheer's standards so it's a bit rich for Scheer to have dug up this dirt. He does make Trudeau look personally insufferable but we knew that already. "Is thus all you got" would have been a better response than a grovelling apology.
The only conservative relevant to this discussion is Scheer. I am yet to see evidence of Scheer demonstrating any of the double standards that Trudeau has displayed (unless you can show otherwise) and, resultingly, would think it worth letting him make his case. If he is going to fling dirt, then sod him. He should have enough positive reasons in the kitty to vote for him without needing to fling mud.

Your middle comment I shall ignore as it is not pertinent to a thread on Trudeau. I only brought it up as the liberals were trying to crucify Scheer on this topic. Your limitations in your thinking on the topic are your own.

As for the final paragraph, was it Scheer who dug up this dirt? I mean, did Trudeau not also state that he hid this because he was embarrassed and ashamed. I wanna be PM and be the bestest, most progressive PM in the world, but I have a dirty wee secret which I think I will hide and about which I shall not be honest. I think Singh put it well... will the reall Slim .. I mean Trudeau, please stand up?
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Old Sep 22nd 2019, 10:24 am
  #150  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice
The only conservative relevant to this discussion is Scheer. I am yet to see evidence of Scheer demonstrating any of the double standards that Trudeau has displayed
Others have quoted him saying that an apology for a past behaviour should be the end of the matter. Is the continuing attacking of Trudeau despite an apology (several times over) not such a double standard?

Or is it okay when it's one of your own but a bad thing and not forgivable when it's someone on the other team? Or does it only count for certain double standards and not others?

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