British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   The Maple Leaf (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/)
-   -   Trial by media (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/trial-media-858195/)

ExKiwilass May 22nd 2015 8:43 am

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JamesM (Post 11653816)
And vice versa. I'd like to see woman stop harassing men. There is no room for harassment in any place let alone the work place.

right, cos that's such a huge issue.

Puh lease.

ExKiwilass May 22nd 2015 8:56 am

Re: Trial by media
 
https://medium.com/the-archipelago/e...r-6e17bb4b906d

this pretty much sums this debate up.

JuneSpring May 22nd 2015 2:39 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JonboyE (Post 11652928)
It is just a wild guess, but I don't think JamesM has met ExKiwilass in real life.

I must add that online, ExKiwilass has never appeared to me a "victim". She is forthright and direct - nothing wrong with a strong woman, although some men can't take that very well. :confused:

JuneSpring May 22nd 2015 2:53 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 11652809)
It's not about what we think he meant, it's about what the the reporter thinks he meant. If she met him alone in Greenhill's dark alley, her thoughts may be very different than meeting him in this rowdy public context with her security man next to her. That's the point. But I don't know what she thought, I have never met her.

Shard, no offence, but you seem like a classic case of someone who over-
intellectualizes matters. "I don't know what she thought" "If this" "If that" "Group Think". It impairs your sensitivity, perhaps.

I haven't followed all the arguments, but I would say that the comments made by that individual were threatening and intended to intimidate and cause the woman extreme discomfort. It was insensitive, cruel and not to be tolerated actually: men - weak men in particular - have often used sex as a way to violate or threaten women, and it is intimidating for many women. And it is not tolerated. Alcohol is no excuse for violence, nor is it an excuse for verbal and mental intimidation or sexual assault.

Furthermore, this individual, by displaying his unmoderated behavior, showed what an intolerable, abusive douchebag he actually is.

The awareness of that is not an issue, his behavior was the issue.

His employer had every right to disapprove of such conduct, and the character of such a person.

JamesM May 22nd 2015 3:02 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JuneSpring (Post 11654055)
I must add that online, ExKiwilass has never appeared to me a "victim". She is forthright and direct - nothing wrong with a strong woman, although some men can't take that very well. :confused:

You've only been on here 5 minutes. ;)

JuneSpring May 22nd 2015 3:19 pm

Re: Trial by media
 
Longer term reader/lurker ;)

JamesM May 22nd 2015 3:36 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JuneSpring (Post 11654079)
Longer term reader/lurker ;)

Sure.

Shard May 22nd 2015 7:22 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by Oakvillian (Post 11653706)
I am once again at a loss to understand your point here.

A company decided it did not want to have, on staff, somebody who felt it acceptable, appropriate, or amusing, to say what was said in public. The employee was filmed by a TV camera crew in a public place. Even if one agreed with your premise that an employee's private off-hours behaviour should have no impact on their continued employment, there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in teh plaza outside a football stadium.

Why do you feel that companies (in this case a government owned arms-length agency, but it would apply equally to a corporation in the private sector) are ill-equipped to judge who they want to employ or who they want to terminate? What else, actually, needs "assessing" here? Who else other than the company is better placed to make this judgement? If the reason for dismissal does not break anti-discrimination legislation, and does not amount to a breach of other employment law (in which case the employee presumably has recourse through the courts anyway) then why should that company be beholden to anybody else's values?

My point is that I don't think companies should be policing their employees' out of work behaviour. If matters are serious, I want them judged in a court of law, not a company HR department; if matters are not serious, I think there are alternative remedies to vindictive power through job loss. Obviously a minority view on this highly conformist forum. Let's leave it at that.

Shard May 22nd 2015 7:24 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JuneSpring (Post 11654062)
Shard, no offence, but you seem like a classic case of someone who over-
intellectualizes matters. "I don't know what she thought" "If this" "If that" "Group Think". It impairs your sensitivity, perhaps.

.

No offence taken :)

Greenhill May 22nd 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Trial by media
 
You don't have to conform, and there's nothing wrong with that.

And don't worry about floating too high (and getting carried further away into the realms of metamagical thinking). As long as you're here, you're anchored to our fact-based reality and we can reel you in, when you allow us the opportunity.


Originally Posted by Shard (Post 11654186)
Obviously a minority view on this highly conformist forum. Let's leave it at that.


Tirytory May 23rd 2015 12:36 am

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 11654186)
My point is that I don't think companies should be policing their employees' out of work behaviour. If matters are serious, I want them judged in a court of law, not a company HR department; if matters are not serious, I think there are alternative remedies to vindictive power through job loss. Obviously a minority view on this highly conformist forum. Let's leave it at that.

Bahaha... What an amusing parting shot:rofl:

Novocastrian May 23rd 2015 1:08 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JuneSpring (Post 11654079)
Longer term reader/lurker ;)

Or a new username after a flounce?

JuneSpring May 23rd 2015 3:01 pm

Re: Trial by media
 
New or old can tell you are a bitter, spiteful critic.

HTH.

JuneSpring May 23rd 2015 3:09 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 11654186)
Obviously a minority view on this highly conformist forum.

Yes exactly - minority views like "rape or abuse or psychological intimidation is not always wrong depending on what the man/woman was thinking" and "violent, abusive people should allow to work unhindered in whatever careers they choose as long as they do this on their own time"...

Best to stick with the minority thinkers and better not to engage majority views on their merits. Hm..

Tirytory May 23rd 2015 11:04 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JuneSpring (Post 11654794)
New or old can tell you are a bitter, spiteful critic.

HTH.

Ooh you don't deny it?;)

Now whose flounced?

Greenhill May 23rd 2015 11:32 pm

Re: Trial by media
 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA4YIdtXEAA8T5C.jpg

Tirytory May 23rd 2015 11:55 pm

Re: Trial by media
 
:rofl: Greenhill..

Although I did meet someone yesterday who was recommending curling as a sport for couples where the women can almost (not quite) be as good as the men...

Sigh..

JuneSpring May 24th 2015 5:04 am

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by Tirytory (Post 11655004)
Ooh you don't deny it?;)

Now whose flounced?

Are you 4 years old, Tirytory?

You seem to think that anyone should care what you or Novocastrian actually think. Please feel free to make up whatever ideas you want about anyone and stick to those, but don't expect me, for one, to care or God forbid, "convince" you otherwise.

Some very sad and misguided people on this forum.

Tirytory May 24th 2015 8:12 am

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JuneSpring (Post 11655270)
Are you 4 years old, Tirytory?

You seem to think that anyone should care what you or Novocastrian actually think. Please feel free to make up whatever ideas you want about anyone and stick to those, but don't expect me, for one, to care or God forbid, "convince" you otherwise.

Some very sad and misguided people on this forum.

:rofl: and you accuse me of being a 4yr old? Are you stamping your feet too? I was just teasing.. I have no idea if you're new or old, no idea if anyone has flounced. The only thing I've noticed is that you post a lot for a newcomer and with a degree of familiarity... Which seems to have been noticed by forum regulars. Now untwist your knickers!

JuneSpring May 24th 2015 8:17 am

Re: Trial by media
 
Only old timers post a lot :lol: I don't know whether to laugh or grimace anymore. *untwists knickers*

Tirytory May 24th 2015 8:43 am

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JuneSpring (Post 11655404)
Only old timers post a lot :lol: I don't know whether to laugh or grimace anymore. *untwists knickers*

Well most new posters don't really get stuck into The Maple Leaf... Of course you are free to do as you wish but it will get commented on (as it has been by James and Novo) and you might not get people's posting styles since you are new (or not as the case may be). Don't think I'm likely to meet up with you at the TO meet up's so I'm not sure I care who you are.

JuneSpring May 24th 2015 8:58 am

Re: Trial by media
 
You sure are obsessive. To end this, I confess that I was nibblewak and also sweetpie and another time Mark (with a k)

Good? I'm old here, been here for centuries, posted for the last decade to be honest. Satisfied? Done.

magnumpi May 24th 2015 9:17 am

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JuneSpring (Post 11655435)
another time Mark (with a k)

.

Why u not just type KARK ? ;)

Tirytory May 24th 2015 9:32 am

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JuneSpring (Post 11655435)
You sure are obsessive. To end this, I confess that I was nibblewak and also sweetpie and another time Mark (with a k)

Good? I'm old here, been here for centuries, posted for the last decade to be honest. Satisfied? Done.

I have no idea who those names are and neither do I care. I thought I made that pretty clear with my last post. I guess not:confused:

bats May 24th 2015 9:36 am

Re: Trial by media
 
Nibble whack? Is that legal?

Novocastrian May 24th 2015 10:31 am

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JuneSpring (Post 11655435)
You sure are obsessive. To end this, I confess that I was nibblewak and also sweetpie and another time Mark (with a k)

Good? I'm old here, been here for centuries, posted for the last decade to be honest. Satisfied? Done.

No, you weren't.

You see, I invented digital computing one Sunday evening and then the internet while on holiday in Geneva.

JamesM May 24th 2015 3:32 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by Tirytory (Post 11655460)
I have no idea who those names are and neither do I care. I thought I made that pretty clear with my last post. I guess not:confused:

I wonder how many insignificant posters have come back with different names over the years?

Well to be honest I don't really.

JamesM May 24th 2015 3:33 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11655493)
No, you weren't.

You see, I invented digital computing one Sunday evening and then the internet while on holiday in Geneva.

What did you do on the eighth day?

sharkus May 25th 2015 12:55 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JamesM (Post 11655618)
What did you do on the eighth day?

Created Spinal Tap?

Gozit May 29th 2015 3:00 am

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 11654186)
My point is that I don't think companies should be policing their employees' out of work behaviour. If matters are serious, I want them judged in a court of law, not a company HR department; if matters are not serious, I think there are alternative remedies to vindictive power through job loss. Obviously a minority view on this highly conformist forum. Let's leave it at that.

+1.
What's the point of continuing to debate this? Its the same thing going round and round...

Former Lancastrian Nov 2nd 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Trial by media
 
UPDATE ; The hydro worker who got fired has now been reinstated after going to arbitration.
Hydro One rehires man fired after FHRITP incident - Toronto - CBC News

Mmmm did they have justification for firing him in the first place or did they envisage paying the guy a shit load of money if found to be in the wrong?

magnumpi Nov 2nd 2015 1:13 pm

Re: Trial by media
 
Well looks like trial by media don't have a long lasting effect. What is sure tho is he probably won't do anything similar again !!

JamesM Nov 2nd 2015 1:17 pm

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 11785128)
UPDATE ; The hydro worker who got fired has now been reinstated after going to arbitration.
Hydro One rehires man fired after FHRITP incident - Toronto - CBC News

Mmmm did they have justification for firing him in the first place or did they envisage paying the guy a shit load of money if found to be in the wrong?

He is lucky to work in a unionised environment. It protects his job and gives him a ludicrous salary.

Nothing further to add to the matter. It's in the past. It hasn't happened again and it is time to move on.

Oakvillian Nov 3rd 2015 1:37 am

Re: Trial by media
 

Originally Posted by JamesM (Post 11785138)
He is lucky to work in a unionised environment. It protects his job and gives him a ludicrous salary.

Nothing further to add to the matter. It's in the past. It hasn't happened again and it is time to move on.

While I agree with your sentiment that it's not really worth resurrecting the whole discussion, there was some interesting commentary this morning on the radio from an employment lawyer (not directly involved in this case). He agreed with your point, James, that being in a unionised environment almost certainly made the difference between being reinstated and not. But he also suggested the employer would have been well aware the tribunal would find against them, but had to be seen to be taking a strong line in the first instance to protect their own reputation (such as it is - it is Hydro One we're talking about, after all...) and just deal with the consequences as they arose.


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