Originally Posted by Shard

Surely the opposite. "Not cancelling" ?

Originally Posted by Shard

don't commission any new ones. .

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd

I do see what you are saying, but the Krays were around 1960s during relatively civilised times - the mid 20th century, and they were just cold blooded murderers.
Many of the statues were from a different time... the 17-18th centuries, as I said in earlier posts, it was a very different world back then, a more barbaric world, where human life counted for a lot less, so it is a bit like comparing apples to oranges.

The world constantly evolves and becomes more and more civilised, even in my life time, the things people used to say and do that were acceptable when I was a young boy in the 70s, are no longer acceptable anymore... again its all about context in my opinion, as long as people have the full facts about that individual, good and bad... they can make their own informed decisions of the balance of good and bad, we cant just erase it.

Originally Posted by kimilseung

As we are talking Civil Rights era in the UK , I now propose a statue to Bobby Sands for his charitable contributions, provided, we "have the full facts about that individual, good and bad"

Originally Posted by Siouxie

All the paintings too!

Originally Posted by Shard

Robert E Lee taken down in Charlottesville ! The times they are a changin'.

Originally Posted by kimilseung

Which paintings btw?

Originally Posted by Siouxie

Perhaps you hadn't realised that some artwork pieces have been removed? (This from the US)
https://www.thecollegefix.com/trendi...med-offensive/

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd

When most of these events took place, it was a very different world back then, look at how many European nations were doing the same thing, it was a barbaric dog eat dog world. I don’t understand why people insist on comparing what happened then, with the civilised standards and mindset we have in 2021, its incomparable.

Britain was the first country to abolish slavery, and also granted independence to nearly all of its colonies not long after the war, however not all of its colonies thought that was a good thing. Like most things we should try to look at a more balanced and bigger picture, although the dark negative past should not be ignored, neither should the positive things that came out of colonisation either. Many people from the ex colonies are still very positive towards Britain. My landlord is Sri Lankan, he is very pro British, we have had a few in depth conversations about various topics, he chooses to look at the bigger picture, my neighbours are from Hong Kong, and they actually told me that they immigrated from there when control was handed back to China, as they feared for its future… that’s not hard to argue against.

During the current Euro football tournament both of them have been sporting England flags from their vehicles! I think that clearly shows their thoughts on Britain, these are just two examples on the street where I live in Ajax Ontario.

Just thought I’d add a little balance to this subject of lets shame Britain, just mine, my landlord’s and my neighbour’s opinion of course.

Originally Posted by kimilseung

Agree, no political statues, but the argument from Mr Shepherd is that the statues such as Colston's, was as a philanthropist.(is that the same as a benefactors ?)
Scientists, artists, poets, can all have their own issues, particularly scientists.
I'd go one further, no statues to people, just ideas and values. I think we can all agree on broad ideas and values (except a very small minority) we all seem to want the same end goals.

Originally Posted by Shard

I wouldn't dismiss Paul's point entirely. Some of the historical figures have done both good and bad, and a purge is not entirely necessary, particulary when one part of the community values the statue (eg. Churchill). In time all these figures will become footnotes or the public en masse will decide that the statue is no longer adding any value. At least controversial statues do form a talking point for the history.

Sculptures for ideas might work. What are you envisioning, a hammer and sickle perhaps?

Originally Posted by bats

you might want to check some history on that

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd

its beneficial for the younger generation to see a physical form of what they looked like, and to celebrate them. .

Originally Posted by dbd33

I don't get this at all. Churchill was not a physically attractive person, why would anyone want to look at an effigy of him?