Shortage of workers
Jul 5th 2021, 2:14 am
#31
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Re: Shortage of workers
He has departed his position at Amazon, and I think is going to space with an 80 year old, that would be kind of cool.
Jul 5th 2021, 2:21 am
#32
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Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Shortage of workers
Market forces don't dictate minimum wage. Politicians do to appease those who cannot understand economics. In return they receive votes, salary, a fat pension and chicken pot pie.
Let me you a real example of how dangerous and inaccurate of what you have written. I will go back to that bar example I gave in a previous post.
When minimum wage was increased to $15 a hour. We can't afford to hold three full time waitresses in the evening. So your most experienced and skilled waitress that gets paid say $17 a hour. They get lets go. You keep one for $15 a hour. The other goes on call part time. The 3rd gets paid less than min wage, no benefits, cash under the table on call.
Lets break it down. The wage was $12 a hour, with a $3 increase x7 hour shift seven days a week. For two employees thats $294 a week, thats $1176 month or $14,112 a year.
Overnight where does that business find that from? The magic money tree?
Not only that, the cost of wholesale goods go up. Your wholesale supplies will increase their prices to pay their staff a 'living wage too. That increase goes onto my business at the end of the month. I have to find that money from somewhere. So prices go up. When that happens, customers will tip less. The staff that work, have to do more, and get less tips.
So im employing less staff, an experienced worker at $17 gets lets go cos she cant compete with the $15 a hour staff behind them, the government gets less tax revenue.
That is the reality of what happens. Worse still the cash under the table employee is exploited. Do you have any idea how many businesses do that now...?
People did not benefit from the wage increase. People lost jobs.
Not only that you think big businesses will take that loss...? Hell no, they have the resources to introduce technology. See the self checkout or self serve kiosks at Walmart and McDonalds...?
Oh wait there is more. Do you have any idea how many girls flew out with nothing from the east coast and took up waitressing jobs here in Calgary? They used that job to fund their studying to acquire more skills and start their careers. They went into dentistry, real estate, IT etc. I got a lot of respect for them. That takes a lot of guts to leave with nothing and take a low paid work on the other side of Canada. But guess what, there are less jobs now. So the next batch coming in or young workers turning 18, we don't have jobs for them. Thats not funny. This is serious.
Not only that, jobs that were $17-20 a hour. Many employers cut those to minimum wage.
Let me you a real example of how dangerous and inaccurate of what you have written. I will go back to that bar example I gave in a previous post.
When minimum wage was increased to $15 a hour. We can't afford to hold three full time waitresses in the evening. So your most experienced and skilled waitress that gets paid say $17 a hour. They get lets go. You keep one for $15 a hour. The other goes on call part time. The 3rd gets paid less than min wage, no benefits, cash under the table on call.
Lets break it down. The wage was $12 a hour, with a $3 increase x7 hour shift seven days a week. For two employees thats $294 a week, thats $1176 month or $14,112 a year.
Overnight where does that business find that from? The magic money tree?
Not only that, the cost of wholesale goods go up. Your wholesale supplies will increase their prices to pay their staff a 'living wage too. That increase goes onto my business at the end of the month. I have to find that money from somewhere. So prices go up. When that happens, customers will tip less. The staff that work, have to do more, and get less tips.
So im employing less staff, an experienced worker at $17 gets lets go cos she cant compete with the $15 a hour staff behind them, the government gets less tax revenue.
That is the reality of what happens. Worse still the cash under the table employee is exploited. Do you have any idea how many businesses do that now...?
People did not benefit from the wage increase. People lost jobs.
Not only that you think big businesses will take that loss...? Hell no, they have the resources to introduce technology. See the self checkout or self serve kiosks at Walmart and McDonalds...?
Oh wait there is more. Do you have any idea how many girls flew out with nothing from the east coast and took up waitressing jobs here in Calgary? They used that job to fund their studying to acquire more skills and start their careers. They went into dentistry, real estate, IT etc. I got a lot of respect for them. That takes a lot of guts to leave with nothing and take a low paid work on the other side of Canada. But guess what, there are less jobs now. So the next batch coming in or young workers turning 18, we don't have jobs for them. Thats not funny. This is serious.
Not only that, jobs that were $17-20 a hour. Many employers cut those to minimum wage.
Tony, are you very rich? How many houses and cars do you have? Do you have a private island? Two yachts?
I wonder because you seem to have bought into the Tony Robbins/Tom Vu view of capitalism, that people who have lots of money have achieved it, rather than plugging away like everyone else and accidentally having hit some sweet spot. I wonder how people who believe wealth is deserved, who are not wealthy, reconcile that gap.
Jul 5th 2021, 2:28 am
#33
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Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Shortage of workers
But, at the same time. Amazon and Bezos should pay tax and there's no way that it's appropriate for there to be such a wage gap between workers and CEO.
Jul 5th 2021, 2:32 am
#34
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Shortage of workers
Idea. Energy, Commitment. It's perfectly possible to build a business from scratch even without capital. He hit the moment when the internet caught on and that was wonderful timing for him. Covid was wonderful for him. I'm not knocking him, I'm sure he worked hard and it all just fitted. Good luck to him.
But, at the same time. Amazon and Bezos should pay tax and there's no way that it's appropriate for there to be such a wage gap between workers and CEO.
But, at the same time. Amazon and Bezos should pay tax and there's no way that it's appropriate for there to be such a wage gap between workers and CEO.
Okay well I did think of an idea a few years ago, at the time was viable, but had overhead costs and couldn't be done from home, and no way to turn the idea into reality, now several other people have entered that idea, and likely not viable anymore due to over saturation of the market.
We did have interest in buying a pet store in the interior a few years ago, would have been more a hobby businesses, but it did turn small profit in the 5 years it was open for the person selling it, so at least covered the costs, but eh couldn't come up with the funds to buy, always a lack of funds that create the barrier.
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Jul 5th 2021 at 2:36 am.
Jul 5th 2021, 2:49 am
#35
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Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Shortage of workers
Idea is the hard part, I couldn't think of any viable business to try and start with $0...
Okay well I did think of an idea a few years ago, at the time was viable, but had overhead costs and couldn't be done from home, and no way to turn the idea into reality, now several other people have entered that idea, and likely not viable anymore due to over saturation of the market.
We did have interest in buying a pet store in the interior a few years ago, would have been more a hobby businesses, but it did turn small profit in the 5 years it was open for the person selling it, so at least covered the costs, but eh couldn't come up with the funds to buy, always a lack of funds that create the barrier.
Okay well I did think of an idea a few years ago, at the time was viable, but had overhead costs and couldn't be done from home, and no way to turn the idea into reality, now several other people have entered that idea, and likely not viable anymore due to over saturation of the market.
We did have interest in buying a pet store in the interior a few years ago, would have been more a hobby businesses, but it did turn small profit in the 5 years it was open for the person selling it, so at least covered the costs, but eh couldn't come up with the funds to buy, always a lack of funds that create the barrier.
Jul 5th 2021, 2:56 am
#36
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Shortage of workers
I made a viable business from $0 but it took a lot of luck to do so. Bezos though, he owes his fortune to the executives of Sears. Sears had the infrastructure to sell across the country, they even sold houses from a catalogue. If they had seen that email order is the same thing as mail order Amazon would never have started. Bezos was lucky that they were asleep at the wheel. Under free market capitalism they should be busted now, want to bet that they're on minimum wage? Nah, the game is fixed.
My high school didn't have internet until fall of 1997 after I graduated.
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Jul 5th 2021 at 3:01 am.
Jul 5th 2021, 9:20 am
#37
Lowering the tone
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Here and there
Posts: 7,350
Re: Shortage of workers
I've had to turn down workers with degrees who couldn't do the job without putting up an argument about how to do it. Ability and willingness to follow simple instructions is #1 on most job requirements. I send the rejects back to the office and phone my team leader while they're enroute and explain this one is just not janitor material.
Jul 5th 2021, 11:43 am
#38
Stand-up Philosopher
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Regina Saskatchewan
Posts: 16,344
Re: Shortage of workers
I can recall seeing an internal job advert for a mail room operator - the guy who wheels the trolley round delivering the office mail - and it stated that applicants under the age of 40 would not be considered. Basically they wanted someone they could be certain had zero ambition left.
Last edited by caretaker; Jul 5th 2021 at 11:49 am.
Jul 5th 2021, 12:08 pm
#39
Lowering the tone
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Here and there
Posts: 7,350
Re: Shortage of workers
Sounds like you're a dedicated and conscientious worker, helped no doubt by the fact you feel invested in your venue and respected by your bosses. I hate to see employers treat workers like they have no right to enjoy their work. Good luck the rehab and getting back to work.
Jul 5th 2021, 4:35 pm
#40
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Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Regina Saskatchewan
Posts: 16,344
Re: Shortage of workers
Sounds like you're a dedicated and conscientious worker, helped no doubt by the fact you feel invested in your venue and respected by your bosses. I hate to see employers treat workers like they have no right to enjoy their work. Good luck the rehab and getting back to work.
Jul 5th 2021, 4:42 pm
#41
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Posts: 0
Re: Shortage of workers
I can recall seeing an internal job advert for a mail room operator - the guy who wheels the trolley round delivering the office mail - and it stated that applicants under the age of 40 would not be considered. Basically they wanted someone they could be certain had zero ambition left.
Jul 5th 2021, 4:53 pm
#42
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Posts: 0
Re: Shortage of workers
Thanks for the good wishes. In the 90's corporations that embraced the concept of TQM (total quality management) realised that job satisfaction and job performance went hand in hand and that all employees from the ground up had to be part of it to make it work. That didn't happen in the 90's where I work, but things are a lot better now. Because it's the non-profit arts sector there's no company pension so when I stop working I start living off old age pension and Canada Pension, and that's not something to look forward to. Opportunities that were passed on or missed have to be weighed against what was done, and I've had a lot of fun.
More companies need to go back to realizing a happy workforce with employees who feel valued is a more productive workforce. As Herb Kelleher said once "Your employees come first. And if you treat your employees right, guess what? Your customers come back, and that makes your shareholders happy. Start with employees and the rest follows from that.
Considering he built one of the most successful airlines in the world ground up over his tenure (he retired in the early 00's) and had one of the most loyal workforces you would ever see, he must have been onto something, even to this day his legacy is still there, and Southwest has some of the most dedicated employees you will find at any airline but in return the airline appreciates and treats their employees well, sometimes certain vocal shareholders get vocal about the consistency of the stock, it doesn't generally go up or down a ton, its very consistent though, you could have bought stock in 1990 and you would have lost $0 on it, where if you bought stock in pretty much any airline in 1990 and held onto it, you would have lost everything due to bankruptcies.
Now the airline I worked for did the polar opposite, treat employees as enemies, cut their pay to peanuts, and end up in a dire mess because you have 80% turn over and can't attract and retain employees, especially in maintenance, at one point our maintenance department was the lowest paid in the industry, starting wage of $13/hr no surprise we had massive maintenance issues, around end of 1999 the board of directors finally realize the CEO was a moron and booted him, and things started to improve, the new CEO increased wages a bit, focused on hiring maintenance and expanding maintenance around the system rather than all focused at the hub.
Granted our CEO was also the lowest paid in the industry at 450,000/yr before bonuses, but that is still a large sum of money when your average workforce is only making 13,000-15,000 a year, only the pilots made a reasonable wage, but still below industry standard, most management made less than pilots, but even today at majors middle management is paid less than a senior pilot.
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Jul 5th 2021 at 5:03 pm.
Jul 12th 2021, 1:30 am
#43
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Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Shortage of workers
It's all gone quiet over there. Tony, Farmer, where's your argument that it makes sense for the CEO of a corporation to make enough money to fund a private space program while the corporation fails to pay its workers a living wage?
Jul 12th 2021, 2:04 am
#44
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 66
Re: Shortage of workers
There are a great many business owners, plenty with incorporated businesses that work long hours, some into the night, many 7 days a week and earn less per hour than their employees. Employers take the risk of loss and failure, bad debt, economic declines, pandemic shut downs, crop failures; a tornado, major hail storm, or excessive heat can destroy a crop. Owners spend many years building a business, plenty living on the bread line while the business develops and only reap the benefits many years down the road. Some lose everything on the gamble. Many business owners self fund their retirement, taking the burden off the state, many business owners support philanthropic initiatives small and large.
A great many business owners value their employees and look after them, they are an organisations most valuable asset. A living wage varies by locale, it is what is needed by 2 people to live in that area, not one person. Many organisations pay above the living wage. A lot because they choose to, competition for labour is also pushing up wages. Consumers need to be prepared to pay more however, as costs go up prices will go up. For our commodity the reseller makes 300% more than we do, I have seen wholesale go up 10% and retail go up 25 to 30% in reponse. When farming become unprofitable farmers drop out, farmland is put to other uses, food is in short supply and prices go up further. Canada has supply management for some agricultural products, but not all.
Covid has ruined many businesses, corporations that did not have the reserves to sustain the business. Poor management or bad luck? A business owner cannot be prepared to shut down for a year or more and keep going. Many business owners have got by using their own savings and retirement funds.
A vast number of business owners make enough to get by, but not live a luxury lifestyle. Small business is Canada's largest employer, without small business the country would be on its knees, with high unemployment.
Jul 12th 2021, 3:49 am
#45
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Posts: 0
Re: Shortage of workers
I buy more and more form the US and China directly, if I am not going to have a living income, I am going to buy where the prices are most competitive.
The most recent I could find in regards to a living wage, current min wage is $15.20 or is it $15.21, somewhere in that ballpark.
Not surprised the interior towns are relatively high, its crazy how expensive rents are in the interior, but then rents are a problem pretty much everywhere in the province.
The most recent I could find in regards to a living wage, current min wage is $15.20 or is it $15.21, somewhere in that ballpark.
Not surprised the interior towns are relatively high, its crazy how expensive rents are in the interior, but then rents are a problem pretty much everywhere in the province.