Refugees from the USA
#16
Re: Refugees from the USA
First use of the word 'scammers' is "Trump clamps down on the scammers in America"
Trump has clamped down on them all, has he not? They've all faced the same issues prior to identifying whether they are genuine or not. That rather makes it look as if the comment did mean all.
Furthermore what about " pretty much anyone coming from America to claim refuge in Canada is a scammer"...is that not a suggestion that it is all? Are you going to quibble whether "pretty much anyone" doesn't quite mean all?
It's grudgingly recognising that maybe there are one or two that are genuine.
Trump has clamped down on them all, has he not? They've all faced the same issues prior to identifying whether they are genuine or not. That rather makes it look as if the comment did mean all.
Furthermore what about " pretty much anyone coming from America to claim refuge in Canada is a scammer"...is that not a suggestion that it is all? Are you going to quibble whether "pretty much anyone" doesn't quite mean all?
It's grudgingly recognising that maybe there are one or two that are genuine.
#17
Re: Refugees from the USA
If it was YOUR family in danger and knowing you'll get sent back to the place that your lives are at risk if you try to hide out in the US.. what would you do?
Yeah, maybe a tiny minority might fall through the cracks and face deportation even though they're legitimate. But they'd be the ones who would have a legitimate claim in Canada.
As for 'compassion', these scammers are hurting legitimate refugee claimants by their actions. Why would anyone who cares about real refugees possibly support the scammers?
#18
Re: Refugees from the USA
Separatism has not gone away - it is just laying in the weeds - and the province is political tinder right now. This is a dangerous issue that has the ability to light it up and create the "winning conditions" Lucien Bouchard was so fond of talking about. In the current global context - there are unpredictable results. Maybe third time is a charm.
#20
Re: Refugees from the USA
How do any of you know that ALL refugee claimants coming up from the US are scammers?
As others have pointed out, I didn't say that. But the only legitimate refugees arriving in Canada across the border from the US would have to be fleeing persecution in America, which probably amounts to a handful every year. Anyone else is a scammer, and should immediately be sent back.
#21
Re: Refugees from the USA
It seems to me that Canada is taking the wrong approach to refugees. No one is turning up at the Canadian border fleeing a conflict that puts their life at immediate risk. At the same time, the world has a surplus of people who are displaced and in imminent danger through no fault of their own. They're a cross section of society, some are criminals, some not. My daughter sent me pictures of businesses in a refugee camp in Iraq, hairdressers, book keepers, even a pool hall. Some gumption there. That said, even driven, talented, refugees may not be easy to integrate into Canada, they may not speak the language, they may be damaged through their experiences, they may not have been nice people in the first place.
A while back I worked with someone who had been sitting in a refugee camp in Laos, hoping to go to England. Canadians approached him, said that Canada was taking so many refugees that year and they were cherry picking. He spoke French, he was a computer person, would he like to be part of their quota? He hadn't previously heard of Canada but, if you're in a refugee camp, what you gonna do?
Cherry picking is the approach that makes sense to me. Determine how many refugees is reasonable, accept that it's a hard road for them to integrate and that they're going to move in Canada to wherever there are people like them, know that some won't work out. Go and grab the most promising ones. Refuse all border applicants.
A while back I worked with someone who had been sitting in a refugee camp in Laos, hoping to go to England. Canadians approached him, said that Canada was taking so many refugees that year and they were cherry picking. He spoke French, he was a computer person, would he like to be part of their quota? He hadn't previously heard of Canada but, if you're in a refugee camp, what you gonna do?
Cherry picking is the approach that makes sense to me. Determine how many refugees is reasonable, accept that it's a hard road for them to integrate and that they're going to move in Canada to wherever there are people like them, know that some won't work out. Go and grab the most promising ones. Refuse all border applicants.
#23
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: Refugees from the USA
I have now re-read these posts three times and nowhere do I see anyone saying that all refugees from the US are scammers as you claim. What I did see were posters making clear distinctions between legitimate refugees and "scammers." Calling out abuses in the system and how it negatively impacts legitimate refugees is a valid point, as is fretting that the abuses undermine public confidence in refugee resettlement, or that divisive figures would use the abuses for their own nefarious purposes. Those sentiments are in no way whatsoever "xenophobia" and I question the motivations of anyone claiming it is. It's a bullying tactic to try and deflect from the issue.
I would substantially challenge the idea that "Mexico" is a uniformly dangerous place with no possibility of internal re-settlement, and the idea that "South America" is as well (Chile? Argentina? Really?).
Now that the name-calling has started - probably time to give up on this thread.
I would substantially challenge the idea that "Mexico" is a uniformly dangerous place with no possibility of internal re-settlement, and the idea that "South America" is as well (Chile? Argentina? Really?).
Now that the name-calling has started - probably time to give up on this thread.
Excuse me?
Where did I do name calling? You really don't know me very well if you think I would resort to that low tactic.
YES South America. Try reading up on it... oh and no I do not have any prejudices regarding those countries, or any other.. I don't have a prejudice bone in my body.
An estimated 500,000 people from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala flee into Mexico every year from the three violence-plagued countries, where rates of murder, kidnapping and sexual violence are comparable to those in full-blown war zones.
Oh - and nearly 70 per cent of the migrant and refugee populations entering Mexico reported being victims of violence during their transit north, from members of gangs and other criminal organizations as well as the Mexican security forces responsible for their protection.
as to your pont about 'nobody saying they are all scammers' - I beg to differ. I suppose it depends on your point of view as to how you perceive what has been said. Each to their own.
But refugees are supposed to be fleeing persecution in the country they're coming from. Which means that pretty much anyone coming from America to claim refuge in Canada is a scammer.
And it's only going to get worse as Trump clamps down on the scammers in America, and they decide to try their luck here. If the government don't stop it now, it will go from a headache to a crisis.
And it's only going to get worse as Trump clamps down on the scammers in America, and they decide to try their luck here. If the government don't stop it now, it will go from a headache to a crisis.
I'll leave you to it, as apparently I am one of the minority in my viewpoint.
Last edited by Siouxie; Aug 5th 2018 at 5:05 am.
#24
Re: Refugees from the USA
I think you missed my point there mags. The other guy denied anyone said all but it was essentially described it as 99.9% - even "pretty much all" were the words used. The nitpicking part was to deny the "all" part when only a handful were described as the exception.
#26
Slob
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Ottineau
Posts: 6,342
Re: Refugees from the USA
I am gobsmacked at the amount of racist bile in this discussion!
Yes, some people are jumping the border into Quebec. They don't have much choice. A few might be crooks. Most are not. They are just normal people wanting to find a safe place to work and raise their families. I have neighbours (Lebanese and Iranian) that legged it from their countries for obvious reasons. You won't meet nicer or more hard-working people anywhere. Quebec could do with more people. There is a huge labour shortage.
Perhaps worth mentioning that two of our last four Governors General were refugees (China and Haiti).
Who the hell brought up the Bloc (or PQ)? Busted flush. The younger generation really don't give a toss about all that.
Yes, some people are jumping the border into Quebec. They don't have much choice. A few might be crooks. Most are not. They are just normal people wanting to find a safe place to work and raise their families. I have neighbours (Lebanese and Iranian) that legged it from their countries for obvious reasons. You won't meet nicer or more hard-working people anywhere. Quebec could do with more people. There is a huge labour shortage.
Perhaps worth mentioning that two of our last four Governors General were refugees (China and Haiti).
Who the hell brought up the Bloc (or PQ)? Busted flush. The younger generation really don't give a toss about all that.
#27
Re: Refugees from the USA
I am gobsmacked at the amount of racist bile in this discussion!
Yes, some people are jumping the border into Quebec. They don't have much choice. A few might be crooks. Most are not. They are just normal people wanting to find a safe place to work and raise their families. I have neighbours (Lebanese and Iranian) that legged it from their countries for obvious reasons. You won't meet nicer or more hard-working people anywhere. Quebec could do with more people. There is a huge labour shortage.
Perhaps worth mentioning that two of our last four Governors General were refugees (China and Haiti).
Who the hell brought up the Bloc (or PQ)? Busted flush. The younger generation really don't give a toss about all that.
Yes, some people are jumping the border into Quebec. They don't have much choice. A few might be crooks. Most are not. They are just normal people wanting to find a safe place to work and raise their families. I have neighbours (Lebanese and Iranian) that legged it from their countries for obvious reasons. You won't meet nicer or more hard-working people anywhere. Quebec could do with more people. There is a huge labour shortage.
Perhaps worth mentioning that two of our last four Governors General were refugees (China and Haiti).
Who the hell brought up the Bloc (or PQ)? Busted flush. The younger generation really don't give a toss about all that.
#28
Slob
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Ottineau
Posts: 6,342
Re: Refugees from the USA
I don't think the primary tone is racism, posters are not saying "keep out the refugees of type x". It's not even xenophobia, the posters are foreigners seeking to keep refugees out of somewhere that's not theirs anyway. I think it's misplaced personal greed, an illogical feeling that letting other people in, any other people, will take something, I'm not sure what, away from those who are already here.
For a while, I really hoped that my stepson would find himself a black girlfriend, just to piss off certain family members. He didn't. His bird, and probable future mother of his kids, is from Saguenay. I've done the finger/toe count. She's OK.