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red seal certificate (cabinetmaker, bc) - worth the hassle?

red seal certificate (cabinetmaker, bc) - worth the hassle?

Old Jul 6th 2008, 1:28 am
  #1  
lof
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Default red seal certificate (cabinetmaker, bc) - worth the hassle?

so, i'm mainly thinking loud here and would appreciate relevant thoughts.

i'm a cabinetmaker. i did the required four years apprenticeship, earned the according trade certificate in my country of origin and have been working in the trade for the last 10 years. before i came to canada i was completely responsible for the cnc-centre in the company for five years, but i don't have an official certificate for that, only the written statement of my former employer (i did the basics in self study, machine specific instuctions / courses were provided by the manufacturer representative, held in our shop and paid by my employer, so no accredited course at an accepted institution for which i could have earned a certificate).
my canadian experience counts for close to three years. i don't have any canadian certification though. i first came over on a young workers exchange program - and my boss here, a fellow countryman, has had the same professional education as i had, so there has been no need to prove my knowledge.


i've been thinking about my future lately and sooner or later i might be in the situation of moving on. i haven't tested the waters yet so i'm not sure what chances i would stand in the free vancouver island cabinetmaker job market. nor am i really sure how discriminatory canadian employers are towards females in a male dominated trade. or towards english speakers with efl for that matter - i still have a pretty strong accent.

reading through the bc red seal pages i'm not sure if it would be worth the hassle to get certified. i mean, unlike for jobs like electricians it's not mandatory to be certified to be allowed to work as a cabinetmaker. (in contrary, if i see what education people need to call themselves cabinetmakers ...) but does it make a difference for my employability or not?
i'm pr (so no objections on the visa side), i have the certified translations of my professional documents (they were part of my pnp-application), i can throw in the odd three years of canadian experience... the building market is still strong here... would that be enough or would i hit a dead end relaying only on that?

well... probably only one way to find out, is there?
anyone in a similar situation who would like to share their experience?


thanks for reading and your input.





oh, just for the sake of completeness:
one option would be to do some accredited courses to strengthen / widen my knowledge, like bringing my cad / cam / cnc knowledge up to date. (unfortunately i didn't use that part of my brain much since coming to canada, my actual job is "back to the roots" so to speak...).
other routes that are spinning around my head would be some kind of self-employed route based on my profession - or starting something completely different. but for the later i would still need a bread earning job while going through further education.
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Old Jul 6th 2008, 5:25 am
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Default Re: red seal certificate (cabinetmaker, bc) - worth the hassle?

Hi lof

I work in a high-end (and I mean really, really high-end) cabinet shop in Richmond. We employ journeymen cabinetmakers. The graduates of the BCIT joinery program are Inter-Provincial journeymen so I guess that is the equivalent of Red Seal. We also employ apprentice joiners and sponsor them through the BCIT apprenticeship training.

Having said that, cabinetmaking is one trade where the journeyman status is not than important unless you are in a unionized shop . Talent is what counts. That talent has two facets. One is the ability to fashion wood, the other is the ability to organize one's work to produce in an efficient manner. We have employed some gifted furniture makers who take a week to make a cabinet. It looks great, but we lose a fortune. The ability to work well, and at a consistent pace cannot be taught in school - it is something learned on the job from working with experienced craftsmen who know how it is done.

My point is that although a job may specify a journeyman joiner we would consider (and employ) anyone, from anywhere, with any qualifications who has the necessary talent. We have just applied to BC-PNP for an English cabinetmaker whose only qualification is an HND. He worked for us for 10 months on a BUNAC visa and he's good. We want him back.

When I first joined this company in 1999 there was one woman in the shop, a furniture finisher. Now it is 50:50 men to woman. Our lead hand is female as are ALL our apprentices. I think these days many women see cabinetmaking as an effective way of expressing their creativity. In 10 to 15 years it will be a female dominated trade.

As for language, there have been times where the majority of people in the shop had something other than English as their first language. The extra effort needed from the employer is a small concession to make for someone with exceptional ability.

I am not trying to say that our shop is typical because it is not. We charge our clients a lot of money and will bend over backwards to attract people with the exceptional talent to wow the people who can afford to commission us. What I am saying is that if you believe in your talent and ability don't worry about qualifications, gender or language and just go for it. You might occasionally find some discrimination, but you wouldn't want to work for these companies in any case.

There is a great need for talented joiners in BC, and if you can run a CNC router you are as good as gold dust.
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Old Jul 7th 2008, 12:28 am
  #3  
lof
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Default Re: red seal certificate (cabinetmaker, bc) - worth the hassle?

thanks for your encouragement, jonboy.
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