Re: Realtors ...
 

That's not a sensible argument to make. How can he find 20 potential buyers with several million $ to spend, willing to attend and view a property on a single given day, and assume they'd all be happy to share his time and answer their questions all at once?

I think it's reasonable to assume anyone investing that sort of money into a business will want a slightly more personal service than an offer of a group tour with potentially competitive bidders.

Re: Realtors ...
 

To be fair to realtors there are a lot here in Ontario who make next to nothing.

The ones that do well and have the rewards to show for it are undoubtedly the ones who are good at their job. Sell a lot of homes for top dollar and you deserve to be rewarded.


In a word of mouth business happy customers are the best way to grow the business, and I dont doubt that at first its very hard for newcomers to break into the business.

Re: Realtors ...
 

I don't think that's incompetence. A person phones, the business is shown, another person phones, the business is shown again. On it goes until one of them buys it.

Re: Realtors ...
 

I have to admit to not understanding this logic at all. Do you believe that you will be able to draft or pay a lawyer to draft the purchase contract for less than the realtor will charge you when purchasing ($0.00).

Argue that it is silly not to use one when selling, but to argue that it is silly to use one when buying is bizarre.

How do you anticipate obtaining access to the property that is listed? You will likely have to use the listing realtor, who will then be able to overhear all the discussions you have with your OH.

Re: Realtors ...
 

Even if it's a $250,000 house, people will arrive when they feel like it. They'll come back multiple times, have inspections, dither, decide not to buy or be declined for financing. It all seems time consuming to me.

Re: Realtors ...
 

The realtor who already has 20 likely buyers in his contact book is the one you want, not someone sitting waiting for the phone to ring after posting a few low res pictures on the MLS listings.

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Quite. We recently had over 60 viewings of our perfectly normal middle of the road house.

Re: Realtors ...
 

Exactly. You can hardly dictate to the prospective buyer how often they visit, or how much engagement they need to make their mind up.

Re: Realtors ...
 

I think the misconception here is that the selling agent will be happy to knock a few grand off the price in order to keep the whole of the commision to themselves.

If you are interested in the house at the asking price they know that a few grand wont be a deal breaker I suspect.

Re: Realtors ...
 

The agent gets the listing, phones the 20 people, all 20 want to see it (!) They all choose different days and times. What's the agent to do? Break it to the sellers gently that they'll be cleaning it 20 times, that's what.

Re: Realtors ...
 

It's not the selling agent's decision though, it's the vendor's.

I cannot begin to imagine how much of a PITA it would be to have to call up every listing agent and schedule viewings with them on the day of the viewings. That alone would be worth paying nothing to the realtor one uses to purchase the house.

Re: Realtors ...
 

Do I believe I can draft (or have a lawyer do it) a purchase contract for less than zero? How am I supposed to answer that question?

I never said it was silly not to use one when selling. I never mentioned selling. I may or may not use a realtor when selling- I'll review my options if/when the time comes.

How would I obtain access to a property? I'd call the listing agent... :confused:

Re: Realtors ...
 

And if you buy the house and don't have your own agent the listing agent gets to keep both the buyer's and seller's commissions.

Re: Realtors ...
 

Huh? $35K for a half day exercise. Can I be your realtor

Now, I think I get it, you're not talking a simple house sale, you're talking a business. That's a little differnet.

Re: Realtors ...
 

I suggest "Yes" or "no" or something like "Why bother, I can do it myself".

The point is that you said you would not use one when purchasing. You do not pay commission to a realtor when purchasing so, in essence, the purchase costs you nothing insofar as your realtor's commission is concerned (I accept that it is possible to argue that the amount you pay for the property includes commission).

As you won't be using a realtor for "free" do you believe you will be able to secure the services of a lawyer or another to draft the contract for "free" or will you have a bash yourself? That was the question.

I suggest you review what I wrote. I never suggested that you would not use one when selling.

That is what I suggested below. As I also stated, I can only imagine that it would be a real PITA to have to schedule lots of viewings in a single day. Fine if you only have one property to view, not so fine if you have multiple properties to view. Of course, you would then have the listing realtor behind you at all times.

Each to their own, I just find not using a realtor to buy a strange decision. I understand why some people don't want to use one when selling.

Re: Realtors ...
 

It's not that hard, I've done it twice.

Again, it's not that hard or that time consuming.

'cus you can negotiate the fees that would normally go to the buying agent. I've split that percentage with the selling agent and they are then more motivated to take your offer.

Re: Realtors ...
 

I have seen enough go wrong that I disagree with you, actually, it is quite difficult.


That depends upon how valuable your time is. Don't forget, the realtor costs you zero.

I suspect that this is location dependant and, again, it is not the realtor's decision, but that of the vendor.

Re: Realtors ...
 

Just out of interest which way do you think the market in Calgary is heading? Did you get many offers out of the 60 viewings?

Re: Realtors ...
 

That's the lawyer in you talking ;)

True, but you could be getting a better deal by not using one.

And who do you think that advises the vendor on what the best deal is - the realtor.

Like you said - to each their own. Like I said - I've done it twice and it's not that time consuming or hard for the money you save.

Re: Realtors ...
 

We did. That was because we wanted a very quick sale and I was happy to have it listed quite a bit below our competitors. I believe it was probably listed at market value -5% and most of our competitors were at market +10%

We listed in early October (IIRC) and had it sold within a month. Our realtor was of the view that the time of year we listed was good to weed out those that were "just looking" and was of the view that those that were viewing were serious about buying. Another advantage was that lots took their properties off the market in the lead up to Christmas.

We actually had a specific acreage in mind when we listed our property but, unfortunately, it was leased for 6 months half a day or so before we finalized our acceptance of the offer.

In direct answer to your question, I suspect the market will continue to rise very slowly. I know that the received wisdom is that spring of next year will see a large increase, I just don't see that.

We bought almost at the top of the market in early 2007, which continued to rise throughout 2007 until it went down. We sold our property for $6,000 more than we paid for it so, over 5 years, lost money on it once commissions are taken into account.

Our new property is outside of the City and, as I have no intention of ever leaving it, I really don't care what the market does.

Re: Realtors ...
 

Sorry, but I still dont see what you're getting at.
What is it about the Canadian system that makes it so much more complicated/difficult than the UK system?:confused:

And, it's hardly "arguable" that the buyer pays the commission fees.

Re: Realtors ...
 

I thought you had purchased a property so I assumed you knew this: the buyer's realtor prepares the purchase contract. If you aren't going to use one, you will have to prepare it yourself. I assume that, if you purchased a property in the UK, you used a solicitor to prepared the purchase contract. One pays the solicitor to prepare the purchase contract in the UK, one doesn't pay the realtor to prepare the purchase contract in Canada.

Actually, it is. If the seller was selling the property without using a realtor, the market value of the property would remain the same.

Why don't we just leave it there.

Re: Realtors ...
 

I'm still struggling here. It is perfectly possible to employ a lawyer to prepare the contract here in Canada, for much less than the cost of using a realtor (purchasing). It's not a service that only realtors can provide, which is entirely my point.

We'll agree to disagree about how realtors are paid. One thing is for sure though- they dont get paid until someone buys the house.

Re: Realtors ...
 

I've only scanned this thread (which turns out not to be stupid after all, only the original post was that).

Here's my experience, first in Canada, and then elsewhere:

I bought my first house here (and first house anywhere) using a buyers realtor. I negotiated a purchase price with her help which I understood to include her fee and the sellers agent fee. So what? I obtained mortgage approval based on my down payment, purchase price and my then income.

So the buyers fee cost me a dollar or so a month on the mortgage interest.

As it turned out, I sold that house less than a year later by owner i.e. without the help of a realtor when we moved to Germany. It sold 2 days after I advertised it in the Toronto Star and we were lucky enough to make a profit which quadrupled my down payment. *Win*.

After 8 years in Germany (more later) we bought a house without using a buyers agent and were able to secure the place for 15% less than the asking price which was aided in part by negotiating with the (double dipping) realtor on her commission. We still live in this house (now mortgage free) and it has roughly tripled or perhaps quadrupled in value. *Win*

Of less general interest, after renting for two years we bought a house in Germany. We used a realtor and again factored whatever fees into the mortgage.

Six years after that we sold it (because we were returning to Canada) and made a modest 35% profit. In Germany the buyer pays all of the realtor fee. (Over and above the purchase price). *Win*

Most recently we bought a house in France (to which we'll retire asap). There the realtor and lawyer fees are a bit on the eye-watering side, but luckily again, we were able to just pay cash for the whole deal.

Did I mention lucky?