Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada > The Maple Leaf
Reload this Page >

real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Old May 6th 2021, 4:36 pm
  #391  
Dive Bar Drunk
 
JamesM's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,419
JamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I suppose if there's a big crash the people who will get hurt will be the ones who've bought in Canada or Australia in the past three years or so. Those who didn't have the money to buy in that period will then be able to. We peasant farm folk are lucky in being underleveraged. Boom or bust, we still live in a field with chickens, the price of the field is neither here nor there.
I don't the know the data but I think a lot of people in Toronto take loans to sustain their standard of living secured on their properties. These loans are at an all time high I believe (but need to check)

Originally Posted by Moses2013 View Post
The next question: Wages in Canada/Australia sustainable?
What's a sustainable wage? In real terms wages are lower than they were 30 years ago and had a decade of stagnation to about 2018. Assets have always grown more than wages through history which is what keeps rich people rich and poor people poor.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
It almost seems as if Canada's main economic engine is immigration. Construction and retail and equity growth obscure (limited) productivity and innovation.
Immigration is the main economic engine- there simply aren't enough people along the US border to build Canada into a leader in any industry. I think money laundering is another lever of the economy that no one wants to talk about.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
It seems like that sometimes. If Canadians, resident and working in Canada can't make enough to buy one of those houses in Vancouver and Toronto, the funds must come from overseas. If this is the case, than immigration is the only way. Immigration from booming Asian countries, where you have a high number of millionaires who want to seek a different life, with a bit more political freedom and less corruption. I hear that's hard to find these days in Hong Kong, and who knows what's going to happen to Taiwan?
Canada is very liberal. I believe our immigration is primarily a solid spread of folk from developing world countries. Why they want to move to another developing world country that probably has more barriers to "success" than where they came still baffles me? But then I remember it's for the children.
JamesM is offline  
Old May 6th 2021, 4:51 pm
  #392  
Bex in the city
 
beckiwoo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,875
beckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
One of scouse's sons and his partner have been renting for some years. About 6 months ago his partner received an inheritance of around AU$100,000 from her aunt in Chicago and was pondering what to do with it. I suggested that using it for a deposit on their own place might be a good idea - they're both pushing 40, have good jobs and no kids (and are not planning to have any). Their jobs are not super high-paying ones but they're not minimum wage either, with that deposit that could pay off a modest home in a decent Perth suburb by the time they retire.

They went with having cosmetic dental treatment and a new car instead. Which is absolutely fine as it's their (her!) money to do as they like with, but I just hope they don't regret it when they're still paying rent from a much reduced income when they retire.
Def not the route I would go down. Even if $100k was not enough for a down payment. I would keep the money in an account until needed for something big
beckiwoo is offline  
Old May 6th 2021, 5:15 pm
  #393  
Assimilated Pauper
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 39,015
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
It seems like that sometimes. If Canadians, resident and working in Canada can't make enough to buy one of those houses in Vancouver and Toronto
Surely houses in Canada are primarily bought by Canadians working in Canada. Some people cannot afford to buy but plenty can, that's why houses cost what they cost.

I'm a big spender on both cosmetic dentistry and additional cars. Soon I'll have a full set of teeth. One can never have a full set of cars.

Last edited by dbd33; May 6th 2021 at 5:19 pm.
dbd33 is online now  
Old May 6th 2021, 6:17 pm
  #394  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 556
OrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
Surely houses in Canada are primarily bought by Canadians working in Canada. Some people cannot afford to buy but plenty can, that's why houses cost what they cost.

I'm a big spender on both cosmetic dentistry and additional cars. Soon I'll have a full set of teeth. One can never have a full set of cars.
I am by far no socialist, so I don't think there is anything against dentistry, expensive cosmetic dentistry or additional cars.

However housing, decent acceptable housing is in my thinking a basic right, even though legally it may not be that way.

One thing that bothers me about the housing market in Canada is the endless overpaying. I have not seen this in the UK to that tune, not even in London. I think that should be made illegal. If the price advertised, is the price offered, the offer must be met, and I'd put that into law. Yes, this might be seen as a socialist regulation, but again, one buys a house to live in.

It's not like one is overpaying cosmetic dentistry by 30% just to get the appointment sooner or the work faster done.

I do understand that in business some things are offered in bidding, in an auction. Even vintage and rare cars are offered in an auction. However if a property is listed, or a car is listed for a price than it's not an auction. Estate agents are not auctioneers in my mind.

Overpaying a property by offering way above the listed price should only be reserved to auctions. In the UK a sale on an auction is often clearly advertised that it's an auction.

But again, that's only my opinion. Opinions might differ as we learned in the corona crisis and on corona mesures.

Last edited by OrangeMango; May 6th 2021 at 6:21 pm.
OrangeMango is offline  
Old May 6th 2021, 6:20 pm
  #395  
Modern Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 21,822
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I am by far no socialist, so I don't think there is anything against dentistry, expensive cosmetic dentistry or additional cars.

However housing, decent acceptable housing is in my thinking a basic right, even though legally it may not be that way.

One thing that bothers me about the housing market is the endless overpaying. I have not seen this in the UK to that tune, not even in London. I think that should be made illegal. If the price advertised, is the price offered, the offer must be met, and I'd put that into law. Yes, this might be seen as a socialist regulation, but again, one buys a house to live in.

It's not like one is overpaying cosmetic dentistry by 30% just to get the appointment sooner or the work faster done.

I do understand that in business some things are offered in bidding, in an auction. However if a property is listed, or a car is listed for a price than it's not an auction.

Overpaying a property by offering way above the listed price should only be reserved to auctions. In the UK a sale on an auction is often clearly advertised that it's an auction.

But again, that's only my opinion. Opinions might differ as we learned in the corona crisis and on corona mesures.
Presumably you haven't heard of the practice of gazumping in England?
Shard is offline  
Old May 6th 2021, 7:21 pm
  #396  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 556
OrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Presumably you haven't heard of the practice of gazumping in England?
It's most likely happening there as well, but as said, I don't think that overpaying by 300 K is usual. Maybe only in the high luxury market.
OrangeMango is offline  
Old May 6th 2021, 7:44 pm
  #397  
Dive Bar Drunk
 
JamesM's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,419
JamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post

It's not like one is overpaying cosmetic dentistry by 30% just to get the appointment sooner or the work faster done.
You haven't seen his teeth. It's not implausible that he is in fact involved in this practice!
JamesM is offline  
Old May 6th 2021, 7:45 pm
  #398  
Dive Bar Drunk
 
JamesM's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,419
JamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
It's most likely happening there as well, but as said, I don't think that overpaying by 300 K is usual. Maybe only in the high luxury market.
At this point I think the market is speculative and irrational. Not too far off bitcoin where fear of missing out is driving it more than anything.
JamesM is offline  
Old May 6th 2021, 7:48 pm
  #399  
Assimilated Pauper
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 39,015
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I am by far no socialist, so I don't think there is anything against dentistry, expensive cosmetic dentistry or additional cars.

However housing, decent acceptable housing is in my thinking a basic right, even though legally it may not be that way.

One thing that bothers me about the housing market in Canada is the endless overpaying. I have not seen this in the UK to that tune, not even in London. I think that should be made illegal. If the price advertised, is the price offered, the offer must be met, and I'd put that into law. Yes, this might be seen as a socialist regulation, but again, one buys a house to live in.

It's not like one is overpaying cosmetic dentistry by 30% just to get the appointment sooner or the work faster done.
I've done exactly that. I go to the dentist I do because, although she charges more, she has convenient appointments. Other people achieve the same by taking their teeth to Cuba or Mexico.

"decent acceptable housing" isn't related to ownership. Council houses (many of them anyway) were decent acceptable housing. Buying a house is a desire separate from wanting a decent roof over one's head. The latter is certainly a reasonable want for someone working full time.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I do understand that in business some things are offered in bidding, in an auction. Even vintage and rare cars are offered in an auction.
I know. This is a car auction in progress. I'm dbd. 1966 Lotus Elan S2 for sale on BaT Auctions - ending May 12 (Lot #47,846) | Bring a Trailer


Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post

However if a property is listed, or a car is listed for a price than it's not an auction. Estate agents are not auctioneers in my mind.

Overpaying a property by offering way above the listed price should only be reserved to auctions. In the UK a sale on an auction is often clearly advertised that it's an auction.
.
That's easily resolved, just call all sales "auctions", that's what they've been in Canada since I've been here. A house is for sale, offers are made, the seller signs them back, it goes round and round until the last potential buyer is left. Very much like "offers over" as routinely used in Scotland.
dbd33 is online now  
Old May 6th 2021, 7:49 pm
  #400  
Assimilated Pauper
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 39,015
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by JamesM View Post
You haven't seen his teeth. It's not implausible that he is in fact involved in this practice!
Alas, progress to date has been to throw the "English teeth" in the bin. New ones are always coming "new month".
dbd33 is online now  
Old May 6th 2021, 8:10 pm
  #401  
Modern Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 21,822
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by JamesM View Post
At this point I think the market is speculative and irrational. Not too far off bitcoin where fear of missing out is driving it more than anything.
After hearing about crazy price rises in TO last month, I was surprised to see a report on CBC a couple days ago saying the the market in April had in fact stalled.
Shard is offline  
Old May 6th 2021, 8:18 pm
  #402  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Jsmth321's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 29,265
Jsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

“Vancouver’s housing market will adjust to reopening borders and development in fundamentals over the next three years,” said Batch in the report. “Buyers will face higher prices and see their budgets decline, while a flow of newcomers will place pressure on the rental market. In essence, the market will face the same sorts of affordability and housing shortage challenges that pre-existed the shock of COVID-19.”

https://vancouversun.com/news/higher...es-cmhc-report

Thought it was an interesting article. Based on a CMHC report.
Jsmth321 is offline  
Old May 7th 2021, 6:42 pm
  #403  
Tea Drinker
 
Danny B's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posts: 5,003
Danny B has a reputation beyond reputeDanny B has a reputation beyond reputeDanny B has a reputation beyond reputeDanny B has a reputation beyond reputeDanny B has a reputation beyond reputeDanny B has a reputation beyond reputeDanny B has a reputation beyond reputeDanny B has a reputation beyond reputeDanny B has a reputation beyond reputeDanny B has a reputation beyond reputeDanny B has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

207,000 jobs lost in April but housing prices are still red hot. How does that work?

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canada-l...pril-1.1600572

Danny B is offline  
Old May 7th 2021, 6:59 pm
  #404  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Jsmth321's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 29,265
Jsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Those who can afford to buy houses are in jobs not as affected by the pandemic and job losses?

On a reddit discussion on this article like half of the 207,000 jobs lost were in the 18 to 24 age group, who may not be in the real estate market?

Originally Posted by Danny B View Post
207,000 jobs lost in April but housing prices are still red hot. How does that work?

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canada-l...pril-1.1600572
Jsmth321 is offline  
Old May 7th 2021, 7:56 pm
  #405  
Dive Bar Drunk
 
JamesM's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,419
JamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
After hearing about crazy price rises in TO last month, I was surprised to see a report on CBC a couple days ago saying the the market in April had in fact stalled.
I saw the same.

One swallow doesn't make a summer- in isolation one month's data doesn't mean too much but I'll be looking keenly for next month's report.

The data was from TREB who typically are notoriously bullish about the housing market which was why it caught my eye.
JamesM is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.