Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada > The Maple Leaf
Reload this Page >

real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Old Apr 12th 2021, 11:43 pm
  #256  
Assimilated Pauper
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,014
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by Shard
Option #1 ($1500 rent) ! Very simple choice.
Yes, and that's how rent control suppresses house prices. There's no point in making the sacrifices entailed in buying an expensive property if you can rent it cheaply.

The answer to housing problems isn't, in my view, to encourage everyone to buy a house but to make more rental housing available through tax incentives such as the MURB program that once existed in Ontario. Government owned rental housing also works but, of course, Atilla the Hen done for that in the UK and there's no appetite for it anywhere now.


dbd33 is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 5:25 am
  #257  
Dive Bar Drunk
 
JamesM's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,647
JamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by dbd33
If that's a reference to me then, no, I haven't rented in BC. But,

1. rent controls work the same way everywhere, BC isn't special.
2. I am in constant contact with someone puzzling over continuing to pay $1500 rent in BC or to shell out just under 3,000,000 for a similar property. It's not a simple choice.
Wouldn't it make sense to continue with the $1500 rent and put the difference into an index linked ETF or mutual fund. That would almost certainly make more money over 25 years once you take out property maintenance, tax and mortgage interest.

It's also highly liquid when they get the chance to finally escape Canada.
JamesM is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 5:46 am
  #258  
Dive Bar Drunk
 
JamesM's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,647
JamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond reputeJamesM has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
According to our agent the property market here in Toronto is hot, hot, hot. Yesterday we had a 9am appointment to view a lakeside condo. It was put on the market Friday. Appointments for Friday/Saturday/Sunday were full. Yesterday morning 3 offers had already been received. Just heard it is now sold. Waiting to hear how much it was sold for.
Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
Yesterday our realtor told us about a nearby condo which was sold for $1.3M 3 years ago. They spent $100K updating it and sold it for $2.4M. $1M profit, not a bad turnover.
It sounds like your realtor is baiting you to sell more than anything.

Rent prices in the waterfront communities are down 30%+ in a year and at current trajectory will hit 2013 levels in a couple more months. Those with lease renewals or running month to month have been able to get massive reductions. It's beyond any crash I've ever seen in any market.

Occupancy is declining massively and there is more rental and re-sale stock on the market than there has been in a long long time.

Landlord panic will set in soon and I'm intrigued to see what that brings.











JamesM is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 5:59 am
  #259  
Account Closed
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
scrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by JamesM
Wouldn't it make sense to continue with the $1500 rent and put the difference into an index linked ETF or mutual fund. That would almost certainly make more money over 25 years once you take out property maintenance, tax and mortgage interest.

It's also highly liquid when they get the chance to finally escape Canada.

I wish I could invest and get funds to finally escape. or a time machine to go back to 2004 and never come....
scrubbedexpat091 is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 6:02 am
  #260  
Account Closed
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
scrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by JamesM
It sounds like your realtor is baiting you to sell more than anything.

Rent prices in the waterfront communities are down 30%+ in a year and at current trajectory will hit 2013 levels in a couple more months. Those with lease renewals or running month to month have been able to get massive reductions. It's beyond any crash I've ever seen in any market.

Occupancy is declining massively and there is more rental and re-sale stock on the market than there has been in a long long time.

Landlord panic will set in soon and I'm intrigued to see what that brings.

Send some of that decreasing rent and vacancies out my way...ha ha

Rents still increasing a bit, and limited supply out this way, landlords market for sure still.

scrubbedexpat091 is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 9:55 am
  #261  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 0
scrubbedexpat142 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat142 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat142 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat142 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat142 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat142 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat142 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat142 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat142 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat142 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat142 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by bats
"Dictionary.com has summed up “OK boomer” as “a viral internet slang phrase used, often in a humorous or ironic manner, to call out or dismiss out-of-touch or close-minded opinions associated with the Baby Boomer generation and older people more generally.”

just in case anyone was wondering.
OK boomer is an expression used by spoilt brats with a highly developed sense of entitlement - thanks to their boomer parents!
scrubbedexpat142 is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 9:57 am
  #262  
SUPER MODERATOR
 
Jerseygirl's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 87,988
Jerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by JamesM
It sounds like your realtor is baiting you to sell more than anything.

Rent prices in the waterfront communities are down 30%+ in a year and at current trajectory will hit 2013 levels in a couple more months. Those with lease renewals or running month to month have been able to get massive reductions. It's beyond any crash I've ever seen in any market.

Occupancy is declining massively and there is more rental and re-sale stock on the market than there has been in a long long time.

Landlord panic will set in soon and I'm intrigued to see what that brings.
I may have mislead you...the condo we viewed is a few miles west of where you are. It was sold for over ask within 48 hrs of it going on the market. Property is still selling very quickly here. The realtor was talking about properties in the GTA, not particularly downtown condos.

Last edited by Jerseygirl; Apr 13th 2021 at 2:51 pm.
Jerseygirl is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 10:35 am
  #263  
Yo
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,459
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by JamesM
It sounds like your realtor is baiting you to sell more than anything.

Rent prices in the waterfront communities are down 30%+ in a year and at current trajectory will hit 2013 levels in a couple more months. Those with lease renewals or running month to month have been able to get massive reductions. It's beyond any crash I've ever seen in any market.

Occupancy is declining massively and there is more rental and re-sale stock on the market than there has been in a long long time.

Landlord panic will set in soon and I'm intrigued to see what that brings.
I heard about this happening in the CBD of Sydney too. I guess it depends on how long the pandemic persists, and how working practices evolve. But in the short term, seems like a good time to rent.
Shard is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 11:04 am
  #264  
Assimilated Pauper
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,014
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by JamesM
Wouldn't it make sense to continue with the $1500 rent and put the difference into an index linked ETF or mutual fund. That would almost certainly make more money over 25 years once you take out property maintenance, tax and mortgage interest.

It's also highly liquid when they get the chance to finally escape Canada.
They don't want to escape! They just want a little house in Kits, near the French school, with good light, and some land to build on in the Okanagan. I think waiting for the next house price collapse will get them all of that but, in the meantime, they have to deal with an apartment that's a bit too small, work lots and hope no more subordinates bugger off to US dollar jobs.
dbd33 is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 11:08 am
  #265  
Dichotomus tinker
 
not2old's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,660
not2old has a reputation beyond reputenot2old has a reputation beyond reputenot2old has a reputation beyond reputenot2old has a reputation beyond reputenot2old has a reputation beyond reputenot2old has a reputation beyond reputenot2old has a reputation beyond reputenot2old has a reputation beyond reputenot2old has a reputation beyond reputenot2old has a reputation beyond reputenot2old has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by dbd33
I came to Canada with nothing, I saved up and bought a house using only Canadian income. The ability to do that was the whole point of being in Canada. My one daughter who likes Canada has done the same. None of us can buy houses in the UK because we're not in that league financially but, despite the theme of this thread, we can still buy houses in Canada using only income from honest work inside the country.
^^^ interesting, can you provide details.

name that town in Ontario where you can buy a move in property based on income alone, include the minimum if any deposit & for goodwill throw in the full carrying costs, PIT, insurance, grocery bag, transportation, medical, clothing & contingency.

can a single wage earner do it?

on that wage, what net income would they need?

what are the chances a first time home buyer would get financing approval?
not2old is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 11:13 am
  #266  
Yo
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,459
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by not2old
^^^ interesting, can you provide details.

name that town in Ontario where you can buy a move in property based on income alone, include the minimum if any deposit & for goodwill throw in the full carrying costs, PIT, insurance, grocery bag, transportation, medical, clothing & contingency.

can a single wage earner do it?

on that wage, what net income would they need?

what are the chances a first time home buyer would get financing approval?
N2O...you're back! Where's have you been? It must be around 5 years since I've seen you on here.
Shard is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 12:02 pm
  #267  
Assimilated Pauper
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,014
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by not2old
^^^ interesting, can you provide details.

name that town in Ontario where you can buy a move in property based on income alone, include the minimum if any deposit & for goodwill throw in the full carrying costs, PIT, insurance, grocery bag, transportation, medical, clothing & contingency.

can a single wage earner do it?

on that wage, what net income would they need?

what are the chances a first time home buyer would get financing approval?
A single wage earner on $125 can borrow 375. They need 125 for a deposit giving $500,000. Orangeville offers a selection of homes for $500,000. So, that's someone in middle management or a starter role in a profession buying a home commutable to Toronto. Lots of people buy houses together, as couples, and so have lots more buying power than that; if they did not houses would not generally cost more than that. You can only sell something for a price people can afford, thus we know that lots of families are willing and able to buy a house somewhere not very nice for a million bucks, it happens every day.
dbd33 is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 12:39 pm
  #268  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Moses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by dbd33
A single wage earner on $125 can borrow 375. They need 125 for a deposit giving $500,000. Orangeville offers a selection of homes for $500,000. So, that's someone in middle management or a starter role in a profession buying a home commutable to Toronto. Lots of people buy houses together, as couples, and so have lots more buying power than that; if they did not houses would not generally cost more than that. You can only sell something for a price people can afford, thus we know that lots of families are willing and able to buy a house somewhere not very nice for a million bucks, it happens every day.
I suppose what the bank will lend is one thing but you still have to pay it back. I think it always make sense to make sure that your mortgage could be covered through unemployment payments, or at least a minimum wage job.
Moses2013 is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 12:40 pm
  #269  
Assimilated Pauper
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,014
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by Moses2013
I suppose what the bank will lend is one thing but you still have to pay it back. I think it always make sense to make sure that your mortgage could be covered through unemployment payments, or at least a minimum wage job.

Oh yes, the banks will readily lend you far more than you should take. I'm not saying I would do this but the option is there.
dbd33 is offline  
Old Apr 13th 2021, 1:15 pm
  #270  
Yo
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,459
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: real estate prices in Canada sustainable?

Originally Posted by Moses2013
I suppose what the bank will lend is one thing but you still have to pay it back. I think it always make sense to make sure that your mortgage could be covered through unemployment payments, or at least a minimum wage job.
If that were the case, nobody would be buying houses. Certainly not anybody earning above minimum wage.
Shard is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.