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Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Old Apr 23rd 2020, 5:24 pm
  #421  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
This is 2020. Nobody in the UK is "born into" any position, nor has any expectations placed upon them from their moment of birth. Everybody is free to make their own decisions as to how they want to live their life.

Less than 100 years ago the King abdicated because he wasn't allowed to marry a divorcee. Times have since changed and it's likely our next king will himself be a divorce and be married to a divorcee. If nothing else, that proves the monarchy can adapt to changes in society, albeit glacially. So if Harry wants to drop out after marrying an LA bimbo, who are you to say he "had a duty" to do something more conformative to your ideas of what he ought to do.

People have been saying for decades that, if the monarchy is to survive, it must move with the times. And yet any time one of them does, reactionaries like you complain that they are disrespecting tradition. It's you who wants to have your cake and eat it.
Well as I said earlier, you are a republican, I wouldn't expect you to understand, you are missing the point.

I am in full agreement that to stay relevant to present day, the monarchy must change with the times (which I feel it has) However in an institution such as the monarchy there is strict protocol to be followed and an expectation of duty, without that it just becomes a free for all, and it loses all the respect it commands. After all; protocol, tradition and dedicated duty is why the British monarchy has lasted as long as it has.

Prince Harry is 6th in line to the throne, (with 3 of the heirs before him too young to carry out royal duties) so of course Harry has a duty as a senior royal to carry out royal duties. The Queen gave him her blessing and embraced who he chose to marry (which would have been unheard of 30-40 years prior). Then when it became apparent that Meghan didn't like her new role, and what she had married into, she wanted out, Harry is obviously besotted, so what diva Meghan wants, Meghan gets.

If the monarchy is to survive it’s a fine balance of moving with the times and maintaining the very protocol that has made it what it is today, the Queen is respected around the world because of her very strong sense of duty to serving her country over her personal needs or wants, “duty first, self second” that’s what the monarchy stands for. Although her family has let her down, the Queen herself has not put a foot wrong, she didn’t swan off to LA or some other celeb city, she accepted her role at a very young age and dedicated her life to her country, and she was never even meant to be Queen, that’s what I respect, I don’t believe that is wanting to have my cake and eat it.
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Old Apr 23rd 2020, 6:43 pm
  #422  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
I'm genuinely shocked at your sycophancy. Who are you to say that Meghan "knew what she was marrying into", implying that she ought to have changed, while Harry somehow didn't know what he was marrying into, and shouldn't change? For all we know, they both agreed that they didn't want a royal role.
Good post. Harry has given half his life to royalty, he now wants something different. Why not? The Queen laid out pics of her father, her eldest son, her eldest grandson and her eldest great grandson. I’m sure Harry got the message. He is wanted to shake hands in the rain in Doncaster, but not for much else. Dead end job.
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Old Apr 24th 2020, 8:16 am
  #423  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd
Well as I said earlier, you are a republican, I wouldn't expect you to understand, you are missing the point.

I am in full agreement that to stay relevant to present day, the monarchy must change with the times (which I feel it has) However in an institution such as the monarchy there is strict protocol to be followed and an expectation of duty, without that it just becomes a free for all, and it loses all the respect it commands. After all; protocol, tradition and dedicated duty is why the British monarchy has lasted as long as it has.

Prince Harry is 6th in line to the throne, (with 3 of the heirs before him too young to carry out royal duties) so of course Harry has a duty as a senior royal to carry out royal duties. The Queen gave him her blessing and embraced who he chose to marry (which would have been unheard of 30-40 years prior). Then when it became apparent that Meghan didn't like her new role, and what she had married into, she wanted out, Harry is obviously besotted, so what diva Meghan wants, Meghan gets.

If the monarchy is to survive it’s a fine balance of moving with the times and maintaining the very protocol that has made it what it is today, the Queen is respected around the world because of her very strong sense of duty to serving her country over her personal needs or wants, “duty first, self second” that’s what the monarchy stands for. Although her family has let her down, the Queen herself has not put a foot wrong, she didn’t swan off to LA or some other celeb city, she accepted her role at a very young age and dedicated her life to her country, and she was never even meant to be Queen, that’s what I respect, I don’t believe that is wanting to have my cake and eat it.
For what it's worth, you won't hear any argument from me that the Queen hasn't selflessly dedicated her life to being Queen. Undoubtedly she has been a committed monarch. But that was HER approach. Who is to say that is what most people want of future monarchs? As far as I can see every time I peek into the world of the Daily Mail Online it would seem that the Mail-readers of this world want the next monarchs to be "just like us". William and Kate spend half their life trying to convince us that they are "regular folks". They have said they want to bring up their children (heirs to the throne) as normally as possible. That's about as diametrically opposite as it's possible to be from the Queen and the Queen Mother when you're born into untold wealth and luxury. So, in that context, why should Harry be required to commit his life to the drudgery of court engagements and shaking hands with the mayor of Doncaster?

I wouldn't even describe myself as a committed republican. I could easily accept a (modest) monarchy as a little quirk of being British. What I DO vehemently object to is the forelock-tugging and abject fawning that sections of our society feels is necessary towards the royals. For goodness sake, it's no secret that this family are thick as mince. If they want my respect, they're going to have to earn it, it doesn't come just because they were born. Harry, for all his faults, seems to want more from his life than being "a royal" so good on him, and good on Meghan for not letting him fall back into being a man trapped in a role.

Conversely, the one I have most contempt for is Kate Middleton. She has voluntarily chucked away her life and sense of self in order to "become Royal". She has traded her life for a role. How pathetic is that?
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Old Apr 24th 2020, 12:11 pm
  #424  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
This is 2020. Nobody in the UK is "born into" any position, nor has any expectations placed upon them from their moment of birth. Everybody is free to make their own decisions as to how they want to live their life.

Less than 100 years ago the King abdicated because he wasn't allowed to marry a divorcee. Times have since changed and it's likely our next king will himself be a divorce and be married to a divorcee. If nothing else, that proves the monarchy can adapt to changes in society, albeit glacially. So if Harry wants to drop out after marrying an LA bimbo, who are you to say he "had a duty" to do something more conformative to your ideas of what he ought to do.

People have been saying for decades that, if the monarchy is to survive, it must move with the times. And yet any time one of them does, reactionaries like you complain that they are disrespecting tradition. It's you who wants to have your cake and eat it.
I haven't the slightest wish to see the monarchy change with the times. What works ,works. Yes he had an expected duty , and for which he received life long benefits-and as you well indicate if he choose to bimbo, well I just have my opinion that it is a poor decision as we see unfolding.
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Old Apr 24th 2020, 12:16 pm
  #425  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
For what it's worth, you won't hear any argument from me that the Queen hasn't selflessly dedicated her life to being Queen. Undoubtedly she has been a committed monarch. But that was HER approach. Who is to say that is what most people want of future monarchs? As far as I can see every time I peek into the world of the Daily Mail Online it would seem that the Mail-readers of this world want the next monarchs to be "just like us". William and Kate spend half their life trying to convince us that they are "regular folks". They have said they want to bring up their children (heirs to the throne) as normally as possible. That's about as diametrically opposite as it's possible to be from the Queen and the Queen Mother when you're born into untold wealth and luxury. So, in that context, why should Harry be required to commit his life to the drudgery of court engagements and shaking hands with the mayor of Doncaster?

I wouldn't even describe myself as a committed republican. I could easily accept a (modest) monarchy as a little quirk of being British. What I DO vehemently object to is the forelock-tugging and abject fawning that sections of our society feels is necessary towards the royals. For goodness sake, it's no secret that this family are thick as mince. If they want my respect, they're going to have to earn it, it doesn't come just because they were born. Harry, for all his faults, seems to want more from his life than being "a royal" so good on him, and good on Meghan for not letting him fall back into being a man trapped in a role.

Conversely, the one I have most contempt for is Kate Middleton. She has voluntarily chucked away her life and sense of self in order to "become Royal". She has traded her life for a role. How pathetic is that?
What a strange new world we live in- Kate dedicates herself to her family, her husband and children and respecting the national institution, and that is considered pathetic.
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Old Apr 24th 2020, 1:19 pm
  #426  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by morpeth
What a strange new world we live in- Kate dedicates herself to her family, her husband and children and respecting the national institution, and that is considered pathetic.
Oh she dedicated herself to bagging a prince, certainly. She followed him to St. Andrews then threw everything she had at catching him. It was a calculated plan. In her mind, she's "got the prize" but look at what she's had to give up to get it.

Harry and Meghan will, I am sure, be just as dedicated to their marriage and their family, and probably more so than any of us, to the Queen. But they just don't want to be part of the pomp and circumstance of it. Fair enough.
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Old Apr 24th 2020, 1:40 pm
  #427  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
Oh she dedicated herself to bagging a prince, certainly. She followed him to St. Andrews then threw everything she had at catching him. It was a calculated plan.
Wasn't that theory completely debunked as his choice of university wasn't announced until a couple of weeks before term started, and the uni said she accepted the place way before that? And surely if he'd really been doing it only to try and bag him, she'd have changed her course choice as well to make sure she was in the same classes as him…………...
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Old Apr 24th 2020, 1:54 pm
  #428  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
Oh she dedicated herself to bagging a prince, certainly. She followed him to St. Andrews then threw everything she had at catching him. It was a calculated plan. In her mind, she's "got the prize" but look at what she's had to give up to get it.

Harry and Meghan will, I am sure, be just as dedicated to their marriage and their family, and probably more so than any of us, to the Queen. But they just don't want to be part of the pomp and circumstance of it. Fair enough.
OMG and Markle didn’t set about to ‘bag’ Harry. Seriously, you actually think it was a blind date?
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Old Apr 24th 2020, 2:23 pm
  #429  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

You women sound more scheming than I was brought up to believe.
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Old Apr 24th 2020, 2:37 pm
  #430  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
You women sound more scheming than I was brought up to believe.
and you men are more naive than I could dream of.
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Old Apr 24th 2020, 3:48 pm
  #431  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
For what it's worth, you won't hear any argument from me that the Queen hasn't selflessly dedicated her life to being Queen. Undoubtedly she has been a committed monarch. But that was HER approach. Who is to say that is what most people want of future monarchs? As far as I can see every time I peek into the world of the Daily Mail Online it would seem that the Mail-readers of this world want the next monarchs to be "just like us". William and Kate spend half their life trying to convince us that they are "regular folks". They have said they want to bring up their children (heirs to the throne) as normally as possible. That's about as diametrically opposite as it's possible to be from the Queen and the Queen Mother when you're born into untold wealth and luxury. So, in that context, why should Harry be required to commit his life to the drudgery of court engagements and shaking hands with the mayor of Doncaster?

I wouldn't even describe myself as a committed republican. I could easily accept a (modest) monarchy as a little quirk of being British. What I DO vehemently object to is the forelock-tugging and abject fawning that sections of our society feels is necessary towards the royals. For goodness sake, it's no secret that this family are thick as mince. If they want my respect, they're going to have to earn it, it doesn't come just because they were born. Harry, for all his faults, seems to want more from his life than being "a royal" so good on him, and good on Meghan for not letting him fall back into being a man trapped in a role.

Conversely, the one I have most contempt for is Kate Middleton. She has voluntarily chucked away her life and sense of self in order to "become Royal". She has traded her life for a role. How pathetic is that?
Well at least we agree on one thing the Queen has done/still doing a good job.

I see what you are trying to say, that they should be able to make their own decisions in life, but that’s not how royalty, its not as simple as that, of course the monarchy wants to evolve, be relevant and stay in touch with the people, and to achieve that, Kate and William want to be as regular as they can be, but of course they can’t as they have to follow royal protocol, which is in place for good reasons, its there to maintain what the monarchy is, or it just becomes a tacky celeb side show.. which is really what Harry and Meghan are turning into.

I actually admire Kate Middleton, Meghan should have taken a leaf out of her book, but she didn’t of course, as they are polar opposites. Kate obviously knew what she wanted, she knew what she was marrying into. She took all the negative press that was thrown at her, and got on with it, and you can tell her and William have genuine affection for one and other, so I don’t think she has thrown her life away, she just takes her role seriously , she had a choice and she happily chose to be a senior royal who will one day be Queen alongside William. I think they will be very good for the monarchy and will be as dedicated as the Queen has been, I am a unsure about Charles, but that’s another story, and I will reserve judgment for now.

I think we have very different opinions on what the monarchy should be, which is fine. I am more of a traditionalist with a view to it constantly but steadily evolving with the times, they can never be regular people, but they can be understanding of the regular people, which I think the Queen has always made a great effort to do, while positioning herself above politics and tacky “celebrity” status.



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Old Apr 24th 2020, 4:07 pm
  #432  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
For what it's worth, you won't hear any argument from me that the Queen hasn't selflessly dedicated her life to being Queen. Undoubtedly she has been a committed monarch. But that was HER approach. Who is to say that is what most people want of future monarchs? As far as I can see every time I peek into the world of the Daily Mail Online it would seem that the Mail-readers of this world want the next monarchs to be "just like us". William and Kate spend half their life trying to convince us that they are "regular folks". They have said they want to bring up their children (heirs to the throne) as normally as possible. That's about as diametrically opposite as it's possible to be from the Queen and the Queen Mother when you're born into untold wealth and luxury. So, in that context, why should Harry be required to commit his life to the drudgery of court engagements and shaking hands with the mayor of Doncaster?

I wouldn't even describe myself as a committed republican. I could easily accept a (modest) monarchy as a little quirk of being British. What I DO vehemently object to is the forelock-tugging and abject fawning that sections of our society feels is necessary towards the royals. For goodness sake, it's no secret that this family are thick as mince. If they want my respect, they're going to have to earn it, it doesn't come just because they were born. Harry, for all his faults, seems to want more from his life than being "a royal" so good on him, and good on Meghan for not letting him fall back into being a man trapped in a role.

Conversely, the one I have most contempt for is Kate Middleton. She has voluntarily chucked away her life and sense of self in order to "become Royal". She has traded her life for a role. How pathetic is that?
Oh very good, I largely concur.
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Old Apr 24th 2020, 4:12 pm
  #433  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd
Well at least we agree on one thing the Queen has done/still doing a good job.

I see what you are trying to say, that they should be able to make their own decisions in life, but that’s not how royalty, its not as simple as that, of course the monarchy wants to evolve, be relevant and stay in touch with the people, and to achieve that, Kate and William want to be as regular as they can be, but of course they can’t as they have to follow royal protocol, which is in place for good reasons, its there to maintain what the monarchy is, or it just becomes a tacky celeb side show.. which is really what Harry and Meghan are turning into.

I actually admire Kate Middleton, Meghan should have taken a leaf out of her book, but she didn’t of course, as they are polar opposites. Kate obviously knew what she wanted, she knew what she was marrying into. She took all the negative press that was thrown at her, and got on with it, and you can tell her and William have genuine affection for one and other, so I don’t think she has thrown her life away, she just takes her role seriously , she had a choice and she happily chose to be a senior royal who will one day be Queen alongside William. I think they will be very good for the monarchy and will be as dedicated as the Queen has been, I am a unsure about Charles, but that’s another story, and I will reserve judgment for now.

I think we have very different opinions on what the monarchy should be, which is fine. I am more of a traditionalist with a view to it constantly but steadily evolving with the times, they can never be regular people, but they can be understanding of the regular people, which I think the Queen has always made a great effort to do, while positioning herself above politics and tacky “celebrity” status.
Kate will never be Queen, just as Phillip isn't King
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Old Apr 24th 2020, 4:47 pm
  #434  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
Kate will never be Queen, just as Phillip isn't King
Not in the same way as we know Queen Elizabeth II, but she will be Queen, her full title will be Queen Consort Catherine. Just like Elizabeth was Queen Consort alongside George VI. Phillip was never referred to as "King Consort" as it is thought the title"King" supersedes Queen.....sound sexist but I guess thats just the way it is.
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Old Apr 25th 2020, 8:21 am
  #435  
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Default Re: Prince Harry and Meghan ......

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
Oh she dedicated herself to bagging a prince, certainly. She followed him to St. Andrews then threw everything she had at catching him. It was a calculated plan. In her mind, she's "got the prize" but look at what she's had to give up to get it.

Harry and Meghan will, I am sure, be just as dedicated to their marriage and their family, and probably more so than any of us, to the Queen. But they just don't want to be part of the pomp and circumstance of it. Fair enough.
Whether it was plan or not (wasn't there a period before the marriage she was re-considering?), she has apparently decided to dedicate herself to her husband and family and respect the institution and family she is now part of.Something admirable I would have thought.

My impression is that Meghan has greater priorities than family and is selfish as well as childish and a hypocrite. As far as being dedicated to the overall family she certainly has shown she has greater priorities for her feelings.As far as Harry and Meghan being dedicated to each other in their marriage I have no way to judge, except an impression her diva-like qualities and selfishness may at some point effect their marriage.
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