Jingsamichty

No need to apologise. These times are simply beyond what we might have considered possible. Just don't continue to frame your old thoughts in this new bizarre reality.

BristolUK

Perfect example of that in the interviews with "the man in the street" today.
A sample.
They genuinely believe a law was passed (in proroguing) and that it's been overturned and they appear to think that reconvening parliament has nothing to do with government getting on with governing. Or they don't understand what parliament is/does.

Almost Canadian

I have to admit that, until took constitutional law, I didn't fully understand how laws were made and how Parliament worked either. I believe there is a very good argument for two subjects to be taught in schools all over the world that, for the most part, are not: How the constitution operates/what the legislature is there for/how it works and how to manage one's finances.

BristolUK

Even something basic like how to write a cheque.

For the other stuff, the nearest I did at school was Citizenship but that was more social studies. I did British Constitution as part of day release in 1973/74

Almost Canadian

The prof that taught me constitutional.law had been an MP. It was through him that I learned how the whipping system operated in practice. He said that, in lots of the pubs around parliament, there were bells that would ring when it was time to vote. Lots of MPs would the return to the house, look for their whips, and pass through the line that they were expected to walk through. Most of the time, they had no ideas what they were voting for. I am confident that, in the current drama, they do know, but I was horrified when I heard this.

BristolUK

Funnily enough someone said just that in the general part of BE earlier.

Paul_Shepherd

Shard.... really? why? Im speechless...

I couldn't think of anything worse.... trying to force the diverse cultures of Europe into one "country" like the US... ? why would you want to lump thousands of years of culture in to one? its a horrible thought.

Seems as though I initiated a flurry of responses on here from my post.... and posters are already trying to put words in my mouth.... I am all for free trade,.... that's where it should stop.... trade..

Like the agreement Canada have formed with Europe like the NAFTA agreement or whatever its called now... ..you can trade without being controlled. Some years back my uncle tried to start up a business...it was perfectly legal under British law and he was able export too... then later came the "European laws and reguations" got tighter and tighter.....which over ruled British law!!! , and it no longer made such a small business viable....he wasn't alone......all that great entrepreneurship stifled and snubbed out by bureaucratic laws .....not bent bananas..... thats what I resent, small business's wiped out.

Every country in the EU comes with its own offering.....through its own culture, and frankly the EU has all but murdered that...its a ridiculous concept....keep it simple...trade parterships...nothing else..

It seems like many people on here feel like there is no alternative.... than be lumped into one bland huge "country" but there is....the UK is not alone in thinking the way its majority voted......other European countries feel the same.

In my opinion the EU as it stands will eventually collapse, you may think I am being a little over the top....but once Britain has gone, it only takes one more major member state to leave and it will be the end of the EU as we know it.... if the Le Pen had been voted in as President in the French Presidential election, Frexit would shortly follow, just think about that... a lot of people are getting bent out of shape about a union that may no longer exist a few years down the line.

Maybe then we can get back to what it should be.....a European trading block. .

dave_j

I'm surprised that you were horrified.
Politicians' first loyalty is to themselves, personally.
Most become MPs because they are members of a party and rely on party support and thus their second loyalty is to the party.
In the rare event that the party loosens the party shackles and allows a free vote then they will vote for how they feel about the subject.
What they will not do is represent the wishes of the people who put them in the job.
This is democracy in practice in the UK and is being played out as we write.

dave_j

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-49812519
Q. Many have asked. Explain what benefits can you possibly gain from Leaving the EU?
A. To misquote Donald Trump for those who voted Leave I say 'What the hell have they got to lose?'
Highbrow arguments about being misinformed, stock market impact, sterling fall, queues at the ports etc. miss the point completely, People voted Leave because they saw no possible gain from remaining in the EU. It's all very well for people like us, who don't live in deprived areas like Middlesbrough, to argue one way or the other but these people voted for what they considered to be very good reasons, that the EU had done nothing for them and that the UK parliament had ignored them completely.
Note the link above and references to the areas below.
Blackpool Leave 67.5 Remain 32.5
Middlesbrough Leave 65.5 Remain 34.5
Rochford(Jaywick) Leave 66.6 Remain 33.4
People who live in these areas saw voting Remain as simply offering more of the same.
They'll see those who are attempting to nullify the result as people who've done very well out of the EU and care nothing for those who've lost out.
Remember the poll tax, another example of parliament ignoring the wishes of the many.
MPs are playing with the political health with the nation for their own personal reasons and when the protests start they'll run for cover and they'll cry 'Nothing to do with us'.

Shard

European cultures are not going to go away. Look at Wales and England; Quebec and Ontario, it's just not going to happen.

Europe evolves. A of huge part of the "trading block" are people and capital, and as people and capital cross borders, often permanently, there are further efficencies and opportunities to be gained by greater economic and political integration. When the original treaties were drafted, nobody envisioned a world with today's challenges (climate, terrorism, digital privacy) so it's really a fallacious argument to say why can't it be like it was 50 years ago. Why not ditch your smart phone and laptop and just go about your day the way you used before you had these things? We don't have anything to fear from being in the EU, they are a rich culture, many countries have advanced economies, and as a block we all benefit from stronger geopolitical influence.

Shard

Dave, you need to replace your drivel filter, it's completely blocked. What absolute nonsense.

scrubbedexpat142

So you believe that as all American States use the dollar & follow Federal law there is no cultural diversity among the different States?

Presumably you support the break up of the UK (& possibly England) due to the cultural differences across the region's?

DaveLovesDee

I have family in the Middlesbrough area.

Middlesbrough and Teeside did very well out of the EU, precisely because it's a deprived area. EU Funding in the Tees Valley

Some of these EU funds are allocated to the government's Northern Powerhouse plan.

The facts don't support your statements. But not to worry, the government won't be replacing the region's EU funds with UK funds.

DaveLovesDee

Then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of EU federalism. That's understandable, considering many other Leavers do too.

Most of the older cultures of the U..S. were forced out long before America became the United States. And how many indigenous cultures did former colonists like the UK, Spain and Portugal (and the Catholic Church) damage by either trying to civilise them, taking away their lands, or by looting their treasures for 'safe-keeping'?

dbd33

That's not true. People in Paris don't speak Euro, they speak French. People in Span don't speak Euro either. The analogy with the US and Canada is flawed because the US and Canada are culturally the same as each other; there's no difference at risk. There are differences between regions, Louisiana isn't like Minnesota though Quebec's like Florida but, overall, the difference between the regions is greater than the differences between the countries.