macadian

I have been following this thread with interest. I don't pretend to understand the full implications of leaving the EU however, given the diverse opinions featured here I think I can be excused on that lack of understanding. One question I do have is in relation the apparent stumbling block, the 'backstop' and the Irish border. Boris seems to think it's simply a means of keeping the UK stuck in the EU by hook or by crook. It was pointed out to me the other day that Switzerland is bordered by five EU countries.....and no hard border with any of them. Why the apparent intransigence from the EU wanting to maintain the backstop? On the face of it, does this lend credence to the opinion held by Boris and many others that it's simply a ploy to shackle the UK to the EU after the UK leaves?

Jingsamichty

There certainly is a hard border with Switzerland.

macadian

If that's the case, I stand corrected.

spouse of scouse

If you're going to be corrected you may as well sit, much more comfortable

macadian

Well, I'm a stand up kind of guy...😝

spouse of scouse

Shard

The border issue with Ireland is far more contentious because of the Troubles. The sticking point is that under the backstop, if UK and EU cannot resolve the border issue, then NI is locked in to the Single Market, and the UK is locked in to the Customs Union indefinitely. Boris claims there are myriad technical solutions to preclude any need for a border in which case you would think he would be perfectly ready to accept the backstop. Unless of course he is bluffing. In my view, if Britain insists on Brexit it should agreed to a border in the Irish Sea (as the EU) proposes, and accept that in all likelihood reunification in Ireland.

Oakvillian

This made me giggle more than it should have.

Probably because I have a cajon - I regularly beat it with my hands while other people in the room are playing with their instruments. It takes cojones to play a cajon in public, though...

dbd33

The Conservatives cannot do that as the depend on the Unionists for their majority.

Almost Canadian

What do you believe the outcome will be if, by October 31, the UK and the EU have not been able to reach an agreement that requires them to reach a different agreement at a later date, if, as the EU suggests, a hard border has to be imposed between NI and Ireland?

Almost Canadian

This sums it up well:

Shard

Hard to say. The issue definitely gives the EU significant leverage in a trade negotiations, particularly as the US seems to be sticking its nose into the issue. My guess is that Irish reunification would precede any attempt at a physical border (apparently NI public mood is shifting away from Britain and towards the EU given the risk of a divided island again). However, both the UK and EU may trial a (tech supported) trade border and assess how that goes.

Shard

At the moment. New election, new arithmetic.

bc2015

There were passport controls when I crossed in 2002 but since then Switzerland has become a member of Schengen so no more passport controls. There is also free movement of goods and people. Big difference of course is that Switzerland has a free trade agreement with the EU, something which the UK has yet to negotiate despite Liam Fox saying it would be the easiest trade deal in history.

Almost Canadian

Is anyone in NI seriously proposing cutting ties with Westminster and uniting Ireland and, if so, is anyone taking them seriously?

Does anyone know what process would be required?

I take a very different view to you regarding the border issue giving the EU significant leverage. I believe it will have the exact opposite effect the closer the parties get to October 31, as I don't believe that the likes of Germany will allow their trade with the UK to be tanked by an issue at the Irish border that could be easily overcome. Full marks to the EU for remaining "together" at this time (at least in public) but I would expect that to change the nearer we get to October 31, particularly if the only real issue between the parties is the backstop.