Pierre Poilievre
Oct 7th 2022, 6:29 pm
#61
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Posts: 13,374
Re: Pierre Poilievre
We've been around this before. Canadian politicians are typically corrupt, Mulroney, and Airbus, Chretien and golf courses, it's accepted here and there's no reason to suppose another Prime Minister would be different. Trudeau seems to be personally insufferable but he's done no harm to freedoms in Canada and that's the low standard by which we have to judge politicians now.
PP is frightening as he consorts with terrorists and represents a movement primarily concerned with the repression of civil liberties; abortion, gay marriage, etc. The argument that Harper also wanted to repress freedoms and wasn't successful so we shouldn't worry about PP doesn't hold up, the world has changed and there are more lunatics in positions of power now, Trump, Hawley, DeSantis, PP himself. Conservative governments are terrible for the economy due to their focus on concentrating wealth, Canada can probably survive a short bout of that but, why would we want to? PP offers nothing good.
PP is frightening as he consorts with terrorists and represents a movement primarily concerned with the repression of civil liberties; abortion, gay marriage, etc. The argument that Harper also wanted to repress freedoms and wasn't successful so we shouldn't worry about PP doesn't hold up, the world has changed and there are more lunatics in positions of power now, Trump, Hawley, DeSantis, PP himself. Conservative governments are terrible for the economy due to their focus on concentrating wealth, Canada can probably survive a short bout of that but, why would we want to? PP offers nothing good.
Compare how Harper did during the financial crisis in 2007/2007 with how Trudeau did prior to, and following, the pandemic. Canadian finances were in a very bad state prior to March of 2020.
As you can't honestly believe that Trudeau's record was a patch on Harper's, which non-Liberal/Conservative party do you believe is going to handle the economy better than those two following the next federal election?
Oct 7th 2022, 6:46 pm
#62
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Re: Pierre Poilievre
Well at least you answered a direct question.
I agree that politicians are corupt but what Trudeau does is fling mud on social issues, instead of governing. Like I said, when asked about inflation, he chooses to go on the attack about what I now know is some hastag #mgtow. How does Trudeau, with his own abysmal record on these standards, get a pass on this and yet people like Trump (who I don't see as relevant), Boris the idiot or Harper (who seems to keep coming up in these discussions) don't? If you point the finger at PP, then you have to point that same finger at Trudeau. And, incidentally, PP is on record about his positions on abortion and gay marriage. It seems to add up as he won't seek to change anything but his party can have private members free votes (a waste of time, in my view).
Strip that nonsense way then and you are left with policies, your record in government. I don't know if you have sought to understand what PP is offering but it seems like he wouldn't even get a hearing, even if his platform might benefit you, or wider society. What exactly is wrong with allowing people to keep more of their pay cheque, or utilising the proceeds of fossil fuels to build the green industries of the future? What is wrong with having a basic understanding of how an economy functions? And what is Trudeau offering that is superior because I can't see it. Hell, at the last election, he spent most of his time flinging mud than discussing any type of vision or economic policy.
I agree that politicians are corupt but what Trudeau does is fling mud on social issues, instead of governing. Like I said, when asked about inflation, he chooses to go on the attack about what I now know is some hastag #mgtow. How does Trudeau, with his own abysmal record on these standards, get a pass on this and yet people like Trump (who I don't see as relevant), Boris the idiot or Harper (who seems to keep coming up in these discussions) don't? If you point the finger at PP, then you have to point that same finger at Trudeau. And, incidentally, PP is on record about his positions on abortion and gay marriage. It seems to add up as he won't seek to change anything but his party can have private members free votes (a waste of time, in my view).
Strip that nonsense way then and you are left with policies, your record in government. I don't know if you have sought to understand what PP is offering but it seems like he wouldn't even get a hearing, even if his platform might benefit you, or wider society. What exactly is wrong with allowing people to keep more of their pay cheque, or utilising the proceeds of fossil fuels to build the green industries of the future? What is wrong with having a basic understanding of how an economy functions? And what is Trudeau offering that is superior because I can't see it. Hell, at the last election, he spent most of his time flinging mud than discussing any type of vision or economic policy.
Oct 7th 2022, 10:13 pm
#63
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Re: Pierre Poilievre
True PP would not get a hearing in this house. He gets mentioned a lot at work "can he really be elected?", "can we really go backwards as a society?" people are scared of him. Rightly, in my view. No one cares if he would make the trains run on time or about his fossil fuel policies. Civil rights are more important and he's a sympathizer with Thomas, Alito, and Barrett.
If PP has better economic proposals, and the jury is out on that for me at least, social justice will be served by a better economy lifting all boats... women, indigenous, LGBTQ, you, the people you work with, me... you name it.
It seems to me you, as you mentioned in an earlier post, are compelled to accept corruption and rubbish governance if you are going to make those subservient to civil rights (whatever you mean by that). And that is why hypocritical, opportunistic mediocrities like Trudeau get elected. It is also why you get the push back nutters elected in response.
Oct 8th 2022, 12:23 am
#64
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Re: Pierre Poilievre
That his far right party will behave in the same manner as their counterparts in the US, Hungary, Brazil and the UK. That is, that it would restrict personal freedoms and impoverish the majority of the population.
I've never understood why people voted for conservative parties. Economically they're going to hurt you, they're the reverse Robin Hood and, as someone who, at best, makes $300,000 a year, I'm not earning enough to benefit from their actions. Anyone earning less can only be voting for them out of some fantasy that, one day, they'll be making two million a year and be glad of policies in favour of robber barons. Today's conservative parties are worse though, they don't just want to take the working people's money and shove it in their pockets. They want to rule the private lives of the population, no abortion, no contraception, what next, no smiling across the room? **** 'em.
I've never understood why people voted for conservative parties. Economically they're going to hurt you, they're the reverse Robin Hood and, as someone who, at best, makes $300,000 a year, I'm not earning enough to benefit from their actions. Anyone earning less can only be voting for them out of some fantasy that, one day, they'll be making two million a year and be glad of policies in favour of robber barons. Today's conservative parties are worse though, they don't just want to take the working people's money and shove it in their pockets. They want to rule the private lives of the population, no abortion, no contraception, what next, no smiling across the room? **** 'em.
Last edited by dbd33; Oct 8th 2022 at 12:32 am. Reason: ear
Oct 8th 2022, 12:37 am
#65
limey party pooper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,982
Re: Pierre Poilievre
The Libs are scraping the barrel with this non-story, a link, probably put in years ago, to a tiny bunch of guys who don't want to have much to do with women. I don't even see how they qualify as misogynistic. I'm much more concerned about Trudeau collaborating with the WEF to develop a Chinese style digital passport for Canadians, a necessary step towards a social credit system. I don't remember that being in the Liberal manifesto at the last election. But hey, take your medicine on demand and eat those bugs like a good boy and you will be fine.
Oct 8th 2022, 1:02 am
#66
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Re: Pierre Poilievre
Women who vote conservative are like creatures from another planet to me. "I want to be repressed and bullied", "I'm comfortable with occasional domestic violence" "I like someone else to choose my dinner" "My body is not something I can be responsible for". OK, if you're Melania and you need a visa, but if you're a citizen, why do you want to deal with all of that?
Oct 8th 2022, 12:00 pm
#67
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Re: Pierre Poilievre
Oct 8th 2022, 9:38 pm
#68
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Re: Pierre Poilievre
I guess I've no issue with people making common cause, the world is all linked now and, if the trades unions in Canada can derive marketing ideas from Mick Lynch, good luck to them. We do the same thing in business, borrowing ideas from firms in other markets. It's in this context that I think it fair to assume that since PP is drawing from the same funds as Trump and espousing the same positions as Trump, he should be judged by the actions of Trump or, worse, those of PP's compatriot, Ted Cruz.
Oct 9th 2022, 2:31 pm
#69
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Re: Pierre Poilievre
I guess I've no issue with people making common cause, the world is all linked now and, if the trades unions in Canada can derive marketing ideas from Mick Lynch, good luck to them. We do the same thing in business, borrowing ideas from firms in other markets. It's in this context that I think it fair to assume that since PP is drawing from the same funds as Trump and espousing the same positions as Trump, he should be judged by the actions of Trump or, worse, those of PP's compatriot, Ted Cruz.
Anyways, happy thanksgiving to you.
Last edited by Tumbling_Dice; Oct 9th 2022 at 2:36 pm.
Oct 9th 2022, 2:33 pm
#70
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Joined: Sep 2017
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Posts: 345
Re: Pierre Poilievre
That his far right party will behave in the same manner as their counterparts in the US, Hungary, Brazil and the UK. That is, that it would restrict personal freedoms and impoverish the majority of the population.
I've never understood why people voted for conservative parties. Economically they're going to hurt you, they're the reverse Robin Hood and, as someone who, at best, makes $300,000 a year, I'm not earning enough to benefit from their actions. Anyone earning less can only be voting for them out of some fantasy that, one day, they'll be making two million a year and be glad of policies in favour of robber barons. Today's conservative parties are worse though, they don't just want to take the working people's money and shove it in their pockets. They want to rule the private lives of the population, no abortion, no contraception, what next, no smiling across the room? **** 'em.
I've never understood why people voted for conservative parties. Economically they're going to hurt you, they're the reverse Robin Hood and, as someone who, at best, makes $300,000 a year, I'm not earning enough to benefit from their actions. Anyone earning less can only be voting for them out of some fantasy that, one day, they'll be making two million a year and be glad of policies in favour of robber barons. Today's conservative parties are worse though, they don't just want to take the working people's money and shove it in their pockets. They want to rule the private lives of the population, no abortion, no contraception, what next, no smiling across the room? **** 'em.
Oct 9th 2022, 4:51 pm
#71
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Re: Pierre Poilievre
Conservatives are always worse than you think possible. Trump was off the dial. Johnson little better. Bolsonaro, Cruz, Hawley, Gym Jordan, Truss Graham. PP is the local franchisee, he would be worse for personal freedoms because that is their brand. I don't like Trudeau as a person but combatting foreign sponsored domestic terrorism is not unreasonably restricting personal freedoms, failure to endorse the provision of abortion on demand is.
Oct 9th 2022, 8:27 pm
#72
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Re: Pierre Poilievre
Great insight here by Neil Oliver on his latest monologue on how left wing authoritarian governments led by such as Ardern and Trudeau are seeking to eliminate dissent and control the populace.
Last edited by Mackem_66; Oct 9th 2022 at 10:06 pm.
Oct 9th 2022, 9:23 pm
#73
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Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
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Oct 9th 2022, 9:33 pm
#74
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Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
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Re: Pierre Poilievre
Great insight here by Neil Oliver on his latest monologue on how left wing authoritarian governments led by such as Ardern and Trudeau are seeking to eliminate dissent and control the populace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh2rOYxOkIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh2rOYxOkIE
Oct 9th 2022, 9:38 pm
#75
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Re: Pierre Poilievre