Moved: Advice/Rant - Warning - This is long!
Jan 29th 2008, 5:41 pm
#16
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Location: Liversedge, West Yorkshire, England
Posts: 304
Re: Moved: Advice/Rant - Warning - This is long!
Way, way too long and convoluted. But I expect you feel better now you've written it all down.
If you still want to proceed, edit edit edit down to about a quarter of what you have there, leave out any reference to a third person (they have to deal with their own issues), use bullets as suggested previously. And start job-hunting (seriously, it sounds like you are quite dispensable). Good luck.
If you still want to proceed, edit edit edit down to about a quarter of what you have there, leave out any reference to a third person (they have to deal with their own issues), use bullets as suggested previously. And start job-hunting (seriously, it sounds like you are quite dispensable). Good luck.
I don't think I'll be sending it for another few weeks at least. But it cheered me up to write it!
I just want to get over to Canada all the sooner now, it's a far cry from the treatment I got from the police while interviewing in Ontario - They couldn't do enough to help!
Jan 29th 2008, 9:07 pm
#17
Truro NS
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 553
Re: Moved: Advice/Rant - Warning - This is long!
AINAL and this is not advice.
It's sometimes useful to write big long rambling texts as a form of catharsis but I'm afraid the effect is liable to make the writer look a bit daft. Yes, I speak from experience. I wrote that daft letter. It was a mistake.
In my experience the best bet is to stick to the law and company policy and to above all be reasonable. Ask for the company's help. People like to help people, not get yelled at.
There are 3 modes of communication.
1. Informal (verbal - water cooler stuff)
2. Business (written but still reasonably light and inconcise)
and
3. Legal (written, in duplicate; concise and above all expensive)
You do NOT want to go to stage 3 so keep it light.
Suggestion, when communicating with an employer:
[with comments embedded]
Note - never say "you" accusatively - say "the company" so its stays neutral.
Above all - be reasonable!
--------------------------
Dear HR Manager
I hope you are well. I am looking forward very much to starting my new job on "date", however I have come across some teething problems that I hope the company can help me deal with.
[OK thats the door open. Now set out what went on.]
As HR will be aware I agreed to contract "x" on "date".
[Nothing is relevant unless its in the contract unless you are seeking to void the contract on the grounds of misrepresentation]
"x" stated that I should have the following start date and general terms and conditions. [list them - these are your terms of reference]
For various reasons there has been some chopping and changing to these conditions, some from my side and some from HR. These are:[list them - but bear in mind the employer is free to require reasonable changes with appropriate notice and if it is a business necessity. it would be counterproductive to rail against this reality as it would to pretend that some changes have come from your direction - be reasonable at all times]
While I would normally easily deal with such changes, I have found that in this particular case the changes have introduced certain issues. They are: [list them so the employer is aware of how his actions have caused you problems and what the problems are - particularly if there is a risk to regulatory compliance, eg health and safety - including yours both physical and psychological. Do some swotting on company policy and make those points too if they come out in your favour]
I hope we can work together towards a solution that enables me to do the best job possible for the company. I am excited by my new and job would like to make the best start possible for the benefit of all concerned.
[You are being reasonable here and showing commitment to the company and to working through problems together. All employer/employee relationships are founded on the prociple of implicit trust. This underpins everything else.]
I can be contacted by phone if you need more information.
[Informal - HR get nervous putting things in writing if their backs against the wall. This lets them off the hook but do ask for a written version of anything you agree]
Best regards
abc123
------------------------------------------
Now, having re-read your post (again) I see that your issue is with Adecco rather than YAS so I think there are grounds to complain about Adecco. It seems to me the job's terms and conditions has been misunderstood (or misrepresented) by them. This doesnt surprise me. Employment Agencies are basically Estate Agents for Human Beings. While I have no particular gripe about EA's they do have a bit of a reputation that I understand is well earned.
Obtain a copy of the original advert and all written communication with Adecco. I can see that coming in useful. Bear in mind also there are some regulations for UK employment agencies:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20033319.htm
Adecco will be aware that YAS gives them a lot of money and will be keen to retain them as a client. You do have to be clever about how you go about this though as the average salesman (which is what employment agents are) will lie through his teeth rather than admit he is wrong - much less compensate you for damages.
If all else fails tell Adecco the small claims court awaits. But be sure you have the evidence that they misrepresented the job and its terms and conditions in order to induce you to pursue a course of action you would not normally have taken. This takes some proving though so really go through your documents carefully.
It's sometimes useful to write big long rambling texts as a form of catharsis but I'm afraid the effect is liable to make the writer look a bit daft. Yes, I speak from experience. I wrote that daft letter. It was a mistake.
In my experience the best bet is to stick to the law and company policy and to above all be reasonable. Ask for the company's help. People like to help people, not get yelled at.
There are 3 modes of communication.
1. Informal (verbal - water cooler stuff)
2. Business (written but still reasonably light and inconcise)
and
3. Legal (written, in duplicate; concise and above all expensive)
You do NOT want to go to stage 3 so keep it light.
Suggestion, when communicating with an employer:
[with comments embedded]
Note - never say "you" accusatively - say "the company" so its stays neutral.
Above all - be reasonable!
--------------------------
Dear HR Manager
I hope you are well. I am looking forward very much to starting my new job on "date", however I have come across some teething problems that I hope the company can help me deal with.
[OK thats the door open. Now set out what went on.]
As HR will be aware I agreed to contract "x" on "date".
[Nothing is relevant unless its in the contract unless you are seeking to void the contract on the grounds of misrepresentation]
"x" stated that I should have the following start date and general terms and conditions. [list them - these are your terms of reference]
For various reasons there has been some chopping and changing to these conditions, some from my side and some from HR. These are:[list them - but bear in mind the employer is free to require reasonable changes with appropriate notice and if it is a business necessity. it would be counterproductive to rail against this reality as it would to pretend that some changes have come from your direction - be reasonable at all times]
While I would normally easily deal with such changes, I have found that in this particular case the changes have introduced certain issues. They are: [list them so the employer is aware of how his actions have caused you problems and what the problems are - particularly if there is a risk to regulatory compliance, eg health and safety - including yours both physical and psychological. Do some swotting on company policy and make those points too if they come out in your favour]
I hope we can work together towards a solution that enables me to do the best job possible for the company. I am excited by my new and job would like to make the best start possible for the benefit of all concerned.
[You are being reasonable here and showing commitment to the company and to working through problems together. All employer/employee relationships are founded on the prociple of implicit trust. This underpins everything else.]
I can be contacted by phone if you need more information.
[Informal - HR get nervous putting things in writing if their backs against the wall. This lets them off the hook but do ask for a written version of anything you agree]
Best regards
abc123
------------------------------------------
Now, having re-read your post (again) I see that your issue is with Adecco rather than YAS so I think there are grounds to complain about Adecco. It seems to me the job's terms and conditions has been misunderstood (or misrepresented) by them. This doesnt surprise me. Employment Agencies are basically Estate Agents for Human Beings. While I have no particular gripe about EA's they do have a bit of a reputation that I understand is well earned.
Obtain a copy of the original advert and all written communication with Adecco. I can see that coming in useful. Bear in mind also there are some regulations for UK employment agencies:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20033319.htm
Adecco will be aware that YAS gives them a lot of money and will be keen to retain them as a client. You do have to be clever about how you go about this though as the average salesman (which is what employment agents are) will lie through his teeth rather than admit he is wrong - much less compensate you for damages.
If all else fails tell Adecco the small claims court awaits. But be sure you have the evidence that they misrepresented the job and its terms and conditions in order to induce you to pursue a course of action you would not normally have taken. This takes some proving though so really go through your documents carefully.
Last edited by wbexpat; Jan 29th 2008 at 9:32 pm. Reason: Reformat for legibility
Jan 29th 2008, 9:46 pm
#18
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Location: Liversedge, West Yorkshire, England
Posts: 304
Re: Moved: Advice/Rant - Warning - This is long!
AINAL and this is not advice.
It's sometimes useful to write big long rambling texts as a form of catharsis but I'm afraid the effect is liable to make the writer look a bit daft. Yes, I speak from experience. I wrote that daft letter. It was a mistake.
In my experience the best bet is to stick to the law and company policy and to above all be reasonable. Ask for the company's help. People like to help people, not get yelled at.
There are 3 modes of communication.
1. Informal (verbal - water cooler stuff)
2. Business (written but still reasonably light and inconcise)
and
3. Legal (written, in duplicate; concise and above all expensive)
You do NOT want to go to stage 3 so keep it light.
Suggestion, when communicating with an employer:
[with comments embedded]
Note - never say "you" accusatively - say "the company" so its stays neutral.
Above all - be reasonable!
--------------------------
Dear HR Manager
I hope you are well. I am looking forward very much to starting my new job on "date", however I have come across some teething problems that I hope the company can help me deal with.
[OK thats the door open. Now set out what went on.]
As HR will be aware I agreed to contract "x" on "date".
[Nothing is relevant unless its in the contract unless you are seeking to void the contract on the grounds of misrepresentation]
"x" stated that I should have the following start date and general terms and conditions. [list them - these are your terms of reference]
For various reasons there has been some chopping and changing to these conditions, some from my side and some from HR. These are:[list them - but bear in mind the employer is free to require reasonable changes with appropriate notice and if it is a business necessity. it would be counterproductive to rail against this reality as it would to pretend that some changes have come from your direction - be reasonable at all times]
While I would normally easily deal with such changes, I have found that in this particular case the changes have introduced certain issues. They are: [list them so the employer is aware of how his actions have caused you problems and what the problems are - particularly if there is a risk to regulatory compliance, eg health and safety - including yours both physical and psychological. Do some swotting on company policy and make those points too if they come out in your favour]
I hope we can work together towards a solution that enables me to do the best job possible for the company. I am excited by my new and job would like to make the best start possible for the benefit of all concerned.
[You are being reasonable here and showing commitment to the company and to working through problems together. All employer/employee relationships are founded on the prociple of implicit trust. This underpins everything else.]
I can be contacted by phone if you need more information.
[Informal - HR get nervous putting things in writing if their backs against the wall. This lets them off the hook but do ask for a written version of anything you agree]
Best regards
abc123
------------------------------------------
Now, having re-read your post (again) I see that your issue is with Adecco rather than YAS so I think there are grounds to complain about Adecco. It seems to me the job's terms and conditions has been misunderstood (or misrepresented) by them. This doesnt surprise me. Employment Agencies are basically Estate Agents for Human Beings. While I have no particular gripe about EA's they do have a bit of a reputation that I understand is well earned.
Obtain a copy of the original advert and all written communication with Adecco. I can see that coming in useful. Bear in mind also there are some regulations for UK employment agencies:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20033319.htm
Adecco will be aware that YAS gives them a lot of money and will be keen to retain them as a client. You do have to be clever about how you go about this though as the average salesman (which is what employment agents are) will lie through his teeth rather than admit he is wrong - much less compensate you for damages.
If all else fails tell Adecco the small claims court awaits. But be sure you have the evidence that they misrepresented the job and its terms and conditions in order to induce you to pursue a course of action you would not normally have taken. This takes some proving though so really go through your documents carefully.
It's sometimes useful to write big long rambling texts as a form of catharsis but I'm afraid the effect is liable to make the writer look a bit daft. Yes, I speak from experience. I wrote that daft letter. It was a mistake.
In my experience the best bet is to stick to the law and company policy and to above all be reasonable. Ask for the company's help. People like to help people, not get yelled at.
There are 3 modes of communication.
1. Informal (verbal - water cooler stuff)
2. Business (written but still reasonably light and inconcise)
and
3. Legal (written, in duplicate; concise and above all expensive)
You do NOT want to go to stage 3 so keep it light.
Suggestion, when communicating with an employer:
[with comments embedded]
Note - never say "you" accusatively - say "the company" so its stays neutral.
Above all - be reasonable!
--------------------------
Dear HR Manager
I hope you are well. I am looking forward very much to starting my new job on "date", however I have come across some teething problems that I hope the company can help me deal with.
[OK thats the door open. Now set out what went on.]
As HR will be aware I agreed to contract "x" on "date".
[Nothing is relevant unless its in the contract unless you are seeking to void the contract on the grounds of misrepresentation]
"x" stated that I should have the following start date and general terms and conditions. [list them - these are your terms of reference]
For various reasons there has been some chopping and changing to these conditions, some from my side and some from HR. These are:[list them - but bear in mind the employer is free to require reasonable changes with appropriate notice and if it is a business necessity. it would be counterproductive to rail against this reality as it would to pretend that some changes have come from your direction - be reasonable at all times]
While I would normally easily deal with such changes, I have found that in this particular case the changes have introduced certain issues. They are: [list them so the employer is aware of how his actions have caused you problems and what the problems are - particularly if there is a risk to regulatory compliance, eg health and safety - including yours both physical and psychological. Do some swotting on company policy and make those points too if they come out in your favour]
I hope we can work together towards a solution that enables me to do the best job possible for the company. I am excited by my new and job would like to make the best start possible for the benefit of all concerned.
[You are being reasonable here and showing commitment to the company and to working through problems together. All employer/employee relationships are founded on the prociple of implicit trust. This underpins everything else.]
I can be contacted by phone if you need more information.
[Informal - HR get nervous putting things in writing if their backs against the wall. This lets them off the hook but do ask for a written version of anything you agree]
Best regards
abc123
------------------------------------------
Now, having re-read your post (again) I see that your issue is with Adecco rather than YAS so I think there are grounds to complain about Adecco. It seems to me the job's terms and conditions has been misunderstood (or misrepresented) by them. This doesnt surprise me. Employment Agencies are basically Estate Agents for Human Beings. While I have no particular gripe about EA's they do have a bit of a reputation that I understand is well earned.
Obtain a copy of the original advert and all written communication with Adecco. I can see that coming in useful. Bear in mind also there are some regulations for UK employment agencies:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20033319.htm
Adecco will be aware that YAS gives them a lot of money and will be keen to retain them as a client. You do have to be clever about how you go about this though as the average salesman (which is what employment agents are) will lie through his teeth rather than admit he is wrong - much less compensate you for damages.
If all else fails tell Adecco the small claims court awaits. But be sure you have the evidence that they misrepresented the job and its terms and conditions in order to induce you to pursue a course of action you would not normally have taken. This takes some proving though so really go through your documents carefully.
Thanks for that, I'll have to go through it again at home, and get all re-read all of the emails from Adecco & print them etc, before I go and shoot my own feet!
Jan 30th 2008, 2:28 am
#19
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Back in Yorkshire
Posts: 1,108
Re: Moved: Advice/Rant - Warning - This is long!
AINAL and this is not advice.
It's sometimes useful to write big long rambling texts as a form of catharsis but I'm afraid the effect is liable to make the writer look a bit daft. Yes, I speak from experience. I wrote that daft letter. It was a mistake.
In my experience the best bet is to stick to the law and company policy and to above all be reasonable. Ask for the company's help. People like to help people, not get yelled at.
There are 3 modes of communication.
1. Informal (verbal - water cooler stuff)
2. Business (written but still reasonably light and inconcise)
and
3. Legal (written, in duplicate; concise and above all expensive)
You do NOT want to go to stage 3 so keep it light.
Suggestion, when communicating with an employer:
[with comments embedded]
Note - never say "you" accusatively - say "the company" so its stays neutral.
Above all - be reasonable!
--------------------------
Dear HR Manager
I hope you are well. I am looking forward very much to starting my new job on "date", however I have come across some teething problems that I hope the company can help me deal with.
[OK thats the door open. Now set out what went on.]
As HR will be aware I agreed to contract "x" on "date".
[Nothing is relevant unless its in the contract unless you are seeking to void the contract on the grounds of misrepresentation]
"x" stated that I should have the following start date and general terms and conditions. [list them - these are your terms of reference]
For various reasons there has been some chopping and changing to these conditions, some from my side and some from HR. These are:[list them - but bear in mind the employer is free to require reasonable changes with appropriate notice and if it is a business necessity. it would be counterproductive to rail against this reality as it would to pretend that some changes have come from your direction - be reasonable at all times]
While I would normally easily deal with such changes, I have found that in this particular case the changes have introduced certain issues. They are: [list them so the employer is aware of how his actions have caused you problems and what the problems are - particularly if there is a risk to regulatory compliance, eg health and safety - including yours both physical and psychological. Do some swotting on company policy and make those points too if they come out in your favour]
I hope we can work together towards a solution that enables me to do the best job possible for the company. I am excited by my new and job would like to make the best start possible for the benefit of all concerned.
[You are being reasonable here and showing commitment to the company and to working through problems together. All employer/employee relationships are founded on the prociple of implicit trust. This underpins everything else.]
I can be contacted by phone if you need more information.
[Informal - HR get nervous putting things in writing if their backs against the wall. This lets them off the hook but do ask for a written version of anything you agree]
Best regards
abc123
------------------------------------------
Now, having re-read your post (again) I see that your issue is with Adecco rather than YAS so I think there are grounds to complain about Adecco. It seems to me the job's terms and conditions has been misunderstood (or misrepresented) by them. This doesnt surprise me. Employment Agencies are basically Estate Agents for Human Beings. While I have no particular gripe about EA's they do have a bit of a reputation that I understand is well earned.
Obtain a copy of the original advert and all written communication with Adecco. I can see that coming in useful. Bear in mind also there are some regulations for UK employment agencies:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20033319.htm
Adecco will be aware that YAS gives them a lot of money and will be keen to retain them as a client. You do have to be clever about how you go about this though as the average salesman (which is what employment agents are) will lie through his teeth rather than admit he is wrong - much less compensate you for damages.
If all else fails tell Adecco the small claims court awaits. But be sure you have the evidence that they misrepresented the job and its terms and conditions in order to induce you to pursue a course of action you would not normally have taken. This takes some proving though so really go through your documents carefully.
It's sometimes useful to write big long rambling texts as a form of catharsis but I'm afraid the effect is liable to make the writer look a bit daft. Yes, I speak from experience. I wrote that daft letter. It was a mistake.
In my experience the best bet is to stick to the law and company policy and to above all be reasonable. Ask for the company's help. People like to help people, not get yelled at.
There are 3 modes of communication.
1. Informal (verbal - water cooler stuff)
2. Business (written but still reasonably light and inconcise)
and
3. Legal (written, in duplicate; concise and above all expensive)
You do NOT want to go to stage 3 so keep it light.
Suggestion, when communicating with an employer:
[with comments embedded]
Note - never say "you" accusatively - say "the company" so its stays neutral.
Above all - be reasonable!
--------------------------
Dear HR Manager
I hope you are well. I am looking forward very much to starting my new job on "date", however I have come across some teething problems that I hope the company can help me deal with.
[OK thats the door open. Now set out what went on.]
As HR will be aware I agreed to contract "x" on "date".
[Nothing is relevant unless its in the contract unless you are seeking to void the contract on the grounds of misrepresentation]
"x" stated that I should have the following start date and general terms and conditions. [list them - these are your terms of reference]
For various reasons there has been some chopping and changing to these conditions, some from my side and some from HR. These are:[list them - but bear in mind the employer is free to require reasonable changes with appropriate notice and if it is a business necessity. it would be counterproductive to rail against this reality as it would to pretend that some changes have come from your direction - be reasonable at all times]
While I would normally easily deal with such changes, I have found that in this particular case the changes have introduced certain issues. They are: [list them so the employer is aware of how his actions have caused you problems and what the problems are - particularly if there is a risk to regulatory compliance, eg health and safety - including yours both physical and psychological. Do some swotting on company policy and make those points too if they come out in your favour]
I hope we can work together towards a solution that enables me to do the best job possible for the company. I am excited by my new and job would like to make the best start possible for the benefit of all concerned.
[You are being reasonable here and showing commitment to the company and to working through problems together. All employer/employee relationships are founded on the prociple of implicit trust. This underpins everything else.]
I can be contacted by phone if you need more information.
[Informal - HR get nervous putting things in writing if their backs against the wall. This lets them off the hook but do ask for a written version of anything you agree]
Best regards
abc123
------------------------------------------
Now, having re-read your post (again) I see that your issue is with Adecco rather than YAS so I think there are grounds to complain about Adecco. It seems to me the job's terms and conditions has been misunderstood (or misrepresented) by them. This doesnt surprise me. Employment Agencies are basically Estate Agents for Human Beings. While I have no particular gripe about EA's they do have a bit of a reputation that I understand is well earned.
Obtain a copy of the original advert and all written communication with Adecco. I can see that coming in useful. Bear in mind also there are some regulations for UK employment agencies:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20033319.htm
Adecco will be aware that YAS gives them a lot of money and will be keen to retain them as a client. You do have to be clever about how you go about this though as the average salesman (which is what employment agents are) will lie through his teeth rather than admit he is wrong - much less compensate you for damages.
If all else fails tell Adecco the small claims court awaits. But be sure you have the evidence that they misrepresented the job and its terms and conditions in order to induce you to pursue a course of action you would not normally have taken. This takes some proving though so really go through your documents carefully.
