Sean Boxer

From The Guardian
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/...981687,00.html)


Most expensive in the world: London's fares rise again

· Bus and tube cash prices in capital soar by 33%
· Rail firms announce 4.3% average increases

The cost of travelling on buses and tubes in London rose by 33% yesterday as the capital's public transport was declared the most expensive in the world.
London's mayor, Ken Livingstone, raised the cost of cash fares on the London Underground and the expanded bus network. The increases mean a single-stop tube journey in the central London zone 1 area now costs £4 in cash. A single zone trip on the buses is now £2 in cash.

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I can never go home again, I can't afford the tube fare from Heathrow.

getoutofbritainquick

Ken thinks that's perfectly acceptable. We went to see a show in London yesterday and the main line fare went up by 8.8%:scared: . Good news for Utilities as well they are going up by another 12% (even thought gas prices have dropped by a third) . Tony Blare wishes everyone a prosperous New Year from his freebie holiday in a tax exiles home in Miami!

dingbat

At least there is an extensive transport infrastructure and access to all that Europe has to offer is dirt cheap by sea, rail, road and air. Try flying or driving from one end of this province to the other and you'll find out what expensive is.

dbd33

Here it's $2.75 and it's about to go up dramatically now that there's to be a third layer of tax on everything. Considering the difference in earnings between the countries London doesn't look too bad, and, as dingbat points out, the transit infrastructure even in this city (possibly the best in Canada) isn't good enough that many people can do without a car. Besides, fares are discounted in London if you have an Oyster card, they're specifically high to discourage the use of cash, whereas here there's no advantage to getting a pass unless you take 14 or more trips a week; commuting doesn't make the pass worthwhile.

In the end, London is a big exciting city, it costs more to live there because it has more to offer than small towns. Cheap buses really aren't enough to make second tier cities, such as Manchester or Toronto, comparable.

getoutofbritainquick

Yet but beer is now £4 pint in London which really does hurt.

dbd33

Four pints of Fuller's London Pride last night in Toronto came to $30+tip which isn't so different. I don't think you'll find anything related to alcohol to be cheap in Ontario; off sales are a government monopoly run by the Liquor Control Board, as the name implies they're not primarily concerned with providing a wide range of cheap booze.

Houses are cheap here but apart from that I think the cost of living comes out about the same.

britsnake

If you use your local transit in Canada you can get a transfer and so use the same ticket for multiple buses whereas if you are going one stop or 30 in London you have to pay £2 on each bus.

The real reasons for the high price rises in London include now allowing all children to travel free on the bus and also losing loads of money on the new huge bendy buses as many people don't pay on them.

I'd be happy to pay for good service, but my usual experience of buses in London are miserable unhelpful and surly bus drivers. Dirty overcrowded buses full of teens often playing music loudly on their mobile phones.

As for the oystercard, it just one more way for "The Man" to spy on you.

Sean Boxer

Amazing!
London replaces double deckers with bendy buses while Ottawa does the exact opposite.


Bring back the Routemasters, now there was a bus!

dbd33

That's not typically true in the GTA. In most cases, if one wanted to reach work without using a car at all it would involve three uncoordinated transit systems and three fares; one might take a Mississauga Transit bus to the GO station, then a train and then the TTC. The Mississauga Transit fare is discounted for people who have a GO pass but using transit in Toronto is more about making a political statement than practicality or economics; it costs almost as much to leave the car in the driveway as it does to use it, add on the fares and transit is an expensive inconvenience.

Note that the GTA likely has the best transit "system" in Canada. This isn't a country for non-drivers.

britsnake

But don't the federal government offer a tax credit if you use a monthly travel pass? Are you not also offered free parking at many stations? I'd think those would make public transport a bit more attractive. Also car pooling can be quite effective.

getoutofbritainquick

We are off to Vancouver to live for now. I was there a few weeks ago it still thought it was much cheaper than the UK in certain respects to the UK.
I agree were you with regard to Canada not being cheap in fact I think is bl**dy expensive!
My family and I are very very fortunate. The job I have in Vancouver is paid the same as the UK plus the benefits are far better so no issues there. We live in the SE UK so Vancouver property is still relatively cheap by comparison plus I have a very good redundancy package where I can take a good pension in 6 years time.
We never planned to go to Canada for financial reasons but for lifestyle. Our intended objective is Kelowna but for now we will go where the work is with a hope of transferring their at a later date which I am told is a realistic expectation.
If you check posts from people from these area there is very little negativity and most seemed very pleased with their lot.
Vancouver is a city with all the usual city problems but as I have no requirement to work in the city we can live in the burbs away from the hustle and bussel. We could go private with the children's education but at this stage do not see any requirement to follow this route.
Vancouver has the Sky train which I thought was very efficient and relatively cheap to use. No graffiti and no vandalism in comparison yo all the new SE Trains were all vandalized and the language of many people is a disgrace especially with children around. Social responsibility appears to have gone out of the window in the UK. But sure, there are things we shall miss, if we do not like Canada we will move somewhere else but for now it is our personal choice.

iaink

On the other hand they do have the purchasing power of the single largest buyer of alcohol on the planet, so I imagine they get something of a bulk discount, and any profit that they do make are recycled back into government spending, which sure beats lining the pockets of some corporate fat cat. Plus they are pretty good at keeping alcohol out of the hands of minors.

I have no problem with the LCBO, but if you are looking for something out of the ordinary its probably a major PITA.

getoutofbritainquick

Wine is expensive in Canada and not so much choice as the UK. Can you import wine into Canada?

dbd33

There is a tax credit, yes, but it's not for a large enough amount to offset the cost of the pass over the price of single tickets. There is free parking at stations but driving to the station implies having a car; once you have a car it's cheaper to take it to the office than to leave it at a station and buy a ticket, though it may be more convenient to leave the car at a station.

I expect car pooling works for people who have fixed hours. I don't know any such people but I do know someone who takes his wife to work so they can use the hov lane. She then drives home again(!)

Transit here is something to which you have to make a commitment, if you believe in it you can make some use of it but it's not like Europe where one can use transit for most things and just rent a car now and then.

dbd33

Every day on the street car I hear someone told to **** off. About once a week I'm treated to a screaming match between passengers phrased in the manner of Derek and Clive. About once a month there's a fist fight amid the packed passengers. Every day I see people spit on the floor, often they spit on each other. I have twice seen people piss in the tram. This is typically between five and six pm. If you want dignity you have to drive.

I can't imagine rush hour in the southeast of England is anything like as bad. It wasn't in 2006.