Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
Aug 6th 2020, 6:51 pm
#1
Account Closed
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
Stats cover 2018-2019 time frame.
25,000 Canadians hospitalized for self harm, 3,800 died, .
Females 10-24 years of age saw highest hospitalization rates.
Males 45 and older highest rates of suicide
1 in 9 had 2 or more hospitalizations in a year due to self harm
Data suggests people are not getting the help they need.
"People are showing up in emergency departments and they're showing up in hospitals. That's kind of a place of last resort," she said.
"That says to me that these people require more help than they're getting."
Figures don't include those who went to ER but were not admitted or those receiving level of care through a GP or other service provider.
People in low to moderate income neighborhoods had a higher rate of hospitalization (104 per 100,000 people) where high income neighborhoods saw a rate of (49 per 100,000).
This does make sense in a way, the public system is inadequate at meeting the needs of people treatment wise, the low to moderate income earners are less likely to have the financial resources to pay for therapy or psychologists so less likely to get adequate care, where higher income people have more financial resources to seek and get the care they or their family member needs.
Rural or remote living also more see's a higher rate than urban 74 per 100,000 vs 63 per 100,000 which again does make sense, those in a rural or remote area are less likely to even have resources within the community to access as most mental health services are concentrated in the urban areas.
CMHA survey found that financial stress, isolation and fear for safety have been driving up suicidal tendencies during COVID crises.
A mental health pandemic is on the horizon in Canada, and in some parts of the country is already arrived.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sel...675451?cmp=rss
25,000 Canadians hospitalized for self harm, 3,800 died, .
Females 10-24 years of age saw highest hospitalization rates.
Males 45 and older highest rates of suicide
1 in 9 had 2 or more hospitalizations in a year due to self harm
Data suggests people are not getting the help they need.
"People are showing up in emergency departments and they're showing up in hospitals. That's kind of a place of last resort," she said.
"That says to me that these people require more help than they're getting."
Figures don't include those who went to ER but were not admitted or those receiving level of care through a GP or other service provider.
People in low to moderate income neighborhoods had a higher rate of hospitalization (104 per 100,000 people) where high income neighborhoods saw a rate of (49 per 100,000).
This does make sense in a way, the public system is inadequate at meeting the needs of people treatment wise, the low to moderate income earners are less likely to have the financial resources to pay for therapy or psychologists so less likely to get adequate care, where higher income people have more financial resources to seek and get the care they or their family member needs.
Rural or remote living also more see's a higher rate than urban 74 per 100,000 vs 63 per 100,000 which again does make sense, those in a rural or remote area are less likely to even have resources within the community to access as most mental health services are concentrated in the urban areas.
CMHA survey found that financial stress, isolation and fear for safety have been driving up suicidal tendencies during COVID crises.
A mental health pandemic is on the horizon in Canada, and in some parts of the country is already arrived.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sel...675451?cmp=rss
Aug 6th 2020, 7:59 pm
#2
Account Closed
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
https://globalnews.ca/news/7254164/c...isability-aid/
Many disabilities are mental health in nature, good article about the lack of disability support in Canada and how little disabled are expected to live on.
28% of those with a severe disability age 25 to 64 live below Canada's poverty line, only 10% of the general population lives below the poverty line in that age group.
Ontario, BC and Quebec offer the highest support for disabled but still keeps people below the poverty line. ON 14,954 followed by BC at 14,802 and Quebec at 13,651 (this is also a good example as to why we can't leave BC, the other provinces support the disabled far less compared to these 3 provinces, and by the time your in Atlantic Canada there is basically no support at all.)
the poverty threshold for a single person in Calgary was $20,585 in 2018 or double Alberta's standard disability rate of 10,301.
BC rates still fall $5,882 below the poverty threshold of $20,684 for a single person in Vancouver.
BC is set to end the emergency disability supplement with this months check at the end of August as well.
Many disabilities are mental health in nature, good article about the lack of disability support in Canada and how little disabled are expected to live on.
28% of those with a severe disability age 25 to 64 live below Canada's poverty line, only 10% of the general population lives below the poverty line in that age group.
Ontario, BC and Quebec offer the highest support for disabled but still keeps people below the poverty line. ON 14,954 followed by BC at 14,802 and Quebec at 13,651 (this is also a good example as to why we can't leave BC, the other provinces support the disabled far less compared to these 3 provinces, and by the time your in Atlantic Canada there is basically no support at all.)
the poverty threshold for a single person in Calgary was $20,585 in 2018 or double Alberta's standard disability rate of 10,301.
BC rates still fall $5,882 below the poverty threshold of $20,684 for a single person in Vancouver.
BC is set to end the emergency disability supplement with this months check at the end of August as well.
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Aug 6th 2020 at 8:04 pm.
Aug 6th 2020, 8:42 pm
#3
Tea Drinker
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posts: 5,387
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
Personally, I think the internet plays a huge part in ones mental health. I feel bad for the 12-18 year old School kids these days, being connected to your phone 24x7 is enough to negatively affect ones mental health. Look at Caroline Flack, she was so scared of what the press would say about her, she thought ending her life was the only way out.
It's extremely important for everyone to disconnect every now and again and talk to people in person. As a society I feel as though we are losing the ability to communicate in person, instead people would rather email or text. As a child of the 70's I grew up playing with kids on the street, I didn't connect with people 'online' until I was at least 25 years old.
Growing up I did not know anyone taking anti depressants, and I certainly did not know anyone who took their own life. Now I am in my 40's, I hear of way more suicides. It's awful.
It's extremely important for everyone to disconnect every now and again and talk to people in person. As a society I feel as though we are losing the ability to communicate in person, instead people would rather email or text. As a child of the 70's I grew up playing with kids on the street, I didn't connect with people 'online' until I was at least 25 years old.
Growing up I did not know anyone taking anti depressants, and I certainly did not know anyone who took their own life. Now I am in my 40's, I hear of way more suicides. It's awful.
Aug 6th 2020, 9:25 pm
#4
Account Closed
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
Personally, I think the internet plays a huge part in ones mental health. I feel bad for the 12-18 year old School kids these days, being connected to your phone 24x7 is enough to negatively affect ones mental health. Look at Caroline Flack, she was so scared of what the press would say about her, she thought ending her life was the only way out.
It's extremely important for everyone to disconnect every now and again and talk to people in person. As a society I feel as though we are losing the ability to communicate in person, instead people would rather email or text. As a child of the 70's I grew up playing with kids on the street, I didn't connect with people 'online' until I was at least 25 years old.
Growing up I did not know anyone taking anti depressants, and I certainly did not know anyone who took their own life. Now I am in my 40's, I hear of way more suicides. It's awful.
It's extremely important for everyone to disconnect every now and again and talk to people in person. As a society I feel as though we are losing the ability to communicate in person, instead people would rather email or text. As a child of the 70's I grew up playing with kids on the street, I didn't connect with people 'online' until I was at least 25 years old.
Growing up I did not know anyone taking anti depressants, and I certainly did not know anyone who took their own life. Now I am in my 40's, I hear of way more suicides. It's awful.
Mental health back in the 70's wasn't something talked about much as far as I understand, so that hush hush probably played a role. My great grandfather on my mom's side ended his life, but the death certificate lists the cause of death as accidentally ingesting a large quantity of prescription medication. Very obviously was a suicide as he left a note indicating such but officially it was an accident. (not exact wording, but gives you the idea they did everything not to call it a suicide outright.)
By the time my grandmother died by suicide in 1992, her death certificate is very detailed, and cause of death listed as suicide and then goes on to list the means in which she did it. 20 year difference between the 2, my mom's mother in 1968 ended her life when my mom was 10, and her death certificate cause of death is simply "other". There was clearly something that kept suicide hush hush in that era.
I wouldn't be surprised if people are more depressed now though vs in the past.
Aug 8th 2020, 11:31 am
#5
BE user by choice
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: A Briton, married to a Canadian, now in Fredericton.
Posts: 4,854
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
It’s been one of those ‘odd’ weeks, and I found myself in idle conversation with three GP’s, they were all agreeing that the level of suicide is often reported as other than suicide per se and attributed to other factors. The subject came up because we all know of a raft of older teenage boys who have taken their own lives in the past couple of years here. It’s truly tragic. This is a very religious part of the country, the fact remains that suicide would be a stigma to a number of families and they don’t want a dead child labelled. My son is in exactly this age group and it really worries me, we have to do something to reach these boys and offer them hope.
NB is very much a ‘have not‘ Province, it was pre C19, and the knock on effect of C19 to our economy is going to be dreadful. We don’t have money for Mental Health...God knows, we have few doctors and if you need to see one you will wait and struggle.
Many of our mental health problems, are certainly made worse by dire poverty and long term economic uncertainty and the fact that many of those experiencing them turn to substance abuse to alleviate their worries, which doesn’t help at all, and the services providing substance abuse programs are completely overwhelmed, so it’s a vicious cycle, which is only set to get worse.
Certainly C19 and the devastation it is wreaking on some parts of society, might allow a more global view on Mental Health issues and how they might be addressed in a cash strapped economy, but I have my doubts...
Aug 8th 2020, 4:29 pm
#6
Account Closed
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
Oh no doubts its difficult to know fully accurately about mental health, there is still so much stigma around it, many suffering don't even attempt to get help or tell anyone so not likely even included in the numbers.
While mental health issues knows no bounds, its certainly true poverty and low income exacerbates the problem and puts up massive barriers to help because for the most part in Canada, money is your access to majority of mental health care, the public system largely concentrates on just psychiatrists and medications, but medication isn't always the appropriate treatment, and medication shouldn't be relied on as the sole treatment, but in Canada that is for the most part how mental health is treated. It's a system designed in the 60's that's never caught up to modern times and when times get tough and budgets cut, first thing to go in healthcare is mental health, even though its already underfunded to a point where the mental health system isn't even a functioning system really at all, so many people fall through the cracks.
Young men and men in general are somewhat of outcasts in the mental health system as well, and stigma around it and society's views in general make it so many men and young males never seek help at all or they do try to seek help (like myself) and find there is really no help there unless they can self pay.
The groups I have attended, I am almost always the only male in the groups, and when I was hospitalized, the patients in my ward were almost all female, in the 6 weeks I was there only 3 males. This isn't because mental health affects females more, its because men are less likely to even seek help, and even when they do seek help, less likely to receive help.
It's night and day in how my wife is treated my healthcare professionals vs how I am, between being male and having a heavily stigmatized disorder its basically impossible for me to get the help and support I actually need, and I am not alone, this repeats across the country every day.
There was a doctor in the US who once said about BPD, "Women with BPD get sent to the hospital, men with BPD get sent to prison." paraphrasing as I can't remember the exact quote.
Other then myself and 1 cousin, nobody in my family will admit that mental health issues exist, but clearly they do on both sides of my family considering the suicides, and doctors consider me as high risk for suicide for 3 reasons really, 1) the disorder I have has one of the highest suicide rates out there, 2) my family history on both sides includes several suicides 3) impulsive behavior which is common in BPD.
Just getting people to talk and recognize the suicide problem is an uphill battle, brushing such topics under the rug as if they don't exist doesn't improve things, doesn't help people, and in the long run doesn't help society.
I am fully aware I am more likely at this point to die by suicide then any other cause at this stage in my life, I do my best not to give into the urges, but I obviously can't guarantee it wont happen, it is what it is though and the barrier to support is simply money, its a vicious cycle as you mentioned, and one that cannot easily be broken without help, mental health issue prevents success in employment, which results in low income, access to help requires steady source of not just income, but high enough income to cover basic essentials plus + therapy and support, a poor person with mental health issues who can't hold employment long term, and is on disability, isn't going to be able to break down that barrier to help and support because they will never have the income necessary.
BC far as I can tell has decided its simply cheaper to put the mentally ill on disability, rather than fund a mental health care system that actually works.
No province in Canada does well when it comes to mental health.
While mental health issues knows no bounds, its certainly true poverty and low income exacerbates the problem and puts up massive barriers to help because for the most part in Canada, money is your access to majority of mental health care, the public system largely concentrates on just psychiatrists and medications, but medication isn't always the appropriate treatment, and medication shouldn't be relied on as the sole treatment, but in Canada that is for the most part how mental health is treated. It's a system designed in the 60's that's never caught up to modern times and when times get tough and budgets cut, first thing to go in healthcare is mental health, even though its already underfunded to a point where the mental health system isn't even a functioning system really at all, so many people fall through the cracks.
Young men and men in general are somewhat of outcasts in the mental health system as well, and stigma around it and society's views in general make it so many men and young males never seek help at all or they do try to seek help (like myself) and find there is really no help there unless they can self pay.
The groups I have attended, I am almost always the only male in the groups, and when I was hospitalized, the patients in my ward were almost all female, in the 6 weeks I was there only 3 males. This isn't because mental health affects females more, its because men are less likely to even seek help, and even when they do seek help, less likely to receive help.
It's night and day in how my wife is treated my healthcare professionals vs how I am, between being male and having a heavily stigmatized disorder its basically impossible for me to get the help and support I actually need, and I am not alone, this repeats across the country every day.
There was a doctor in the US who once said about BPD, "Women with BPD get sent to the hospital, men with BPD get sent to prison." paraphrasing as I can't remember the exact quote.
Other then myself and 1 cousin, nobody in my family will admit that mental health issues exist, but clearly they do on both sides of my family considering the suicides, and doctors consider me as high risk for suicide for 3 reasons really, 1) the disorder I have has one of the highest suicide rates out there, 2) my family history on both sides includes several suicides 3) impulsive behavior which is common in BPD.
Just getting people to talk and recognize the suicide problem is an uphill battle, brushing such topics under the rug as if they don't exist doesn't improve things, doesn't help people, and in the long run doesn't help society.
I am fully aware I am more likely at this point to die by suicide then any other cause at this stage in my life, I do my best not to give into the urges, but I obviously can't guarantee it wont happen, it is what it is though and the barrier to support is simply money, its a vicious cycle as you mentioned, and one that cannot easily be broken without help, mental health issue prevents success in employment, which results in low income, access to help requires steady source of not just income, but high enough income to cover basic essentials plus + therapy and support, a poor person with mental health issues who can't hold employment long term, and is on disability, isn't going to be able to break down that barrier to help and support because they will never have the income necessary.
BC far as I can tell has decided its simply cheaper to put the mentally ill on disability, rather than fund a mental health care system that actually works.
No province in Canada does well when it comes to mental health.
I think that would be very difficult to judge either way, and statistics are not always an even playing field between different Provinces or countries. It’s awfully difficult to ‘define’ depression exactly. Certainly my mother took her own life in the ‘80’s and would never have admitted to being depressed, at any point...and her cause of death was not given as suicide.
It’s been one of those ‘odd’ weeks, and I found myself in idle conversation with three GP’s, they were all agreeing that the level of suicide is often reported as other than suicide per se and attributed to other factors. The subject came up because we all know of a raft of older teenage boys who have taken their own lives in the past couple of years here. It’s truly tragic. This is a very religious part of the country, the fact remains that suicide would be a stigma to a number of families and they don’t want a dead child labelled. My son is in exactly this age group and it really worries me, we have to do something to reach these boys and offer them hope.
NB is very much a ‘have not‘ Province, it was pre C19, and the knock on effect of C19 to our economy is going to be dreadful. We don’t have money for Mental Health...God knows, we have few doctors and if you need to see one you will wait and struggle.
Many of our mental health problems, are certainly made worse by dire poverty and long term economic uncertainty and the fact that many of those experiencing them turn to substance abuse to alleviate their worries, which doesn’t help at all, and the services providing substance abuse programs are completely overwhelmed, so it’s a vicious cycle, which is only set to get worse.
Certainly C19 and the devastation it is wreaking on some parts of society, might allow a more global view on Mental Health issues and how they might be addressed in a cash strapped economy, but I have my doubts...
It’s been one of those ‘odd’ weeks, and I found myself in idle conversation with three GP’s, they were all agreeing that the level of suicide is often reported as other than suicide per se and attributed to other factors. The subject came up because we all know of a raft of older teenage boys who have taken their own lives in the past couple of years here. It’s truly tragic. This is a very religious part of the country, the fact remains that suicide would be a stigma to a number of families and they don’t want a dead child labelled. My son is in exactly this age group and it really worries me, we have to do something to reach these boys and offer them hope.
NB is very much a ‘have not‘ Province, it was pre C19, and the knock on effect of C19 to our economy is going to be dreadful. We don’t have money for Mental Health...God knows, we have few doctors and if you need to see one you will wait and struggle.
Many of our mental health problems, are certainly made worse by dire poverty and long term economic uncertainty and the fact that many of those experiencing them turn to substance abuse to alleviate their worries, which doesn’t help at all, and the services providing substance abuse programs are completely overwhelmed, so it’s a vicious cycle, which is only set to get worse.
Certainly C19 and the devastation it is wreaking on some parts of society, might allow a more global view on Mental Health issues and how they might be addressed in a cash strapped economy, but I have my doubts...
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Aug 8th 2020 at 5:55 pm.
Aug 8th 2020, 9:30 pm
#7
Tea Drinker
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posts: 5,387
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
Anthony Bourdain had access to the finest healthcare in the world and we know how that ended up
Aug 8th 2020, 9:34 pm
#8
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,021
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
Some think money will solve all the problems...often it doesn’t. Many famous/rich people suffer and die from depression.
Last edited by Jerseygirl; Aug 8th 2020 at 9:41 pm.
Aug 8th 2020, 9:49 pm
#9
Account Closed
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
I didn't mean to imply mental health doesn't affect the wealthy it does obviously, the point I was trying to make is the poor don't even have access to care because of the financial barriers in place, the wealthy do not have those financial barriers.
Aug 8th 2020, 9:52 pm
#10
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,021
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
I think I didn't explain is clearly.
I didn't mean to imply mental health doesn't affect the wealthy it does obviously, the point I was trying to make is the poor don't even have access to care because of the financial barriers in place, the wealthy do not have those financial barriers.
I didn't mean to imply mental health doesn't affect the wealthy it does obviously, the point I was trying to make is the poor don't even have access to care because of the financial barriers in place, the wealthy do not have those financial barriers.
Aug 8th 2020, 11:47 pm
#12
`
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,612
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
I think that would be very difficult to judge either way, and statistics are not always an even playing field between different Provinces or countries. It’s awfully difficult to ‘define’ depression exactly. Certainly my mother took her own life in the ‘80’s and would never have admitted to being depressed, at any point...and her cause of death was not given as suicide.
It’s been one of those ‘odd’ weeks, and I found myself in idle conversation with three GP’s, they were all agreeing that the level of suicide is often reported as other than suicide per se and attributed to other factors. The subject came up because we all know of a raft of older teenage boys who have taken their own lives in the past couple of years here. It’s truly tragic. This is a very religious part of the country, the fact remains that suicide would be a stigma to a number of families and they don’t want a dead child labelled. My son is in exactly this age group and it really worries me, we have to do something to reach these boys and offer them hope.
NB is very much a ‘have not‘ Province, it was pre C19, and the knock on effect of C19 to our economy is going to be dreadful. We don’t have money for Mental Health...God knows, we have few doctors and if you need to see one you will wait and struggle.
Many of our mental health problems, are certainly made worse by dire poverty and long term economic uncertainty and the fact that many of those experiencing them turn to substance abuse to alleviate their worries, which doesn’t help at all, and the services providing substance abuse programs are completely overwhelmed, so it’s a vicious cycle, which is only set to get worse.
Certainly C19 and the devastation it is wreaking on some parts of society, might allow a more global view on Mental Health issues and how they might be addressed in a cash strapped economy, but I have my doubts...
It’s been one of those ‘odd’ weeks, and I found myself in idle conversation with three GP’s, they were all agreeing that the level of suicide is often reported as other than suicide per se and attributed to other factors. The subject came up because we all know of a raft of older teenage boys who have taken their own lives in the past couple of years here. It’s truly tragic. This is a very religious part of the country, the fact remains that suicide would be a stigma to a number of families and they don’t want a dead child labelled. My son is in exactly this age group and it really worries me, we have to do something to reach these boys and offer them hope.
NB is very much a ‘have not‘ Province, it was pre C19, and the knock on effect of C19 to our economy is going to be dreadful. We don’t have money for Mental Health...God knows, we have few doctors and if you need to see one you will wait and struggle.
Many of our mental health problems, are certainly made worse by dire poverty and long term economic uncertainty and the fact that many of those experiencing them turn to substance abuse to alleviate their worries, which doesn’t help at all, and the services providing substance abuse programs are completely overwhelmed, so it’s a vicious cycle, which is only set to get worse.
Certainly C19 and the devastation it is wreaking on some parts of society, might allow a more global view on Mental Health issues and how they might be addressed in a cash strapped economy, but I have my doubts...
Aug 9th 2020, 12:06 am
#13
Account Closed
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
My point was access to help, those with money at least have access, those like me do not even have access. I never meant to even imply mental health doesn't affect everyone, it does, I know it does, it was about access to care and barriers low income people face to even access care where someone with money can call up and get help within a few days.
Think about it, if a successful, wealthy person who has the means to access help can't take life, I certainly stand no chance and everyone else like me who ended their lives because they couldn't access help stood no chance.
Think about it, if a successful, wealthy person who has the means to access help can't take life, I certainly stand no chance and everyone else like me who ended their lives because they couldn't access help stood no chance.
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Aug 9th 2020 at 12:09 am.
Aug 9th 2020, 12:15 am
#14
`
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,612
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
If those with money, success, careers can't handle life, then someone like me can't but yet we cannot even get help, that was the point I was trying to make, the barrier to care is money, simple as that, those without money don't even stand a fighting chance because we cannot even access help to try.
Perhaps a change of thread title might help as I am not sure what the topic is. If it is a topic solely for you to express that you feel stuffed because you are male with little income, then that has already been often said, goes over old ground, and no-one is going to alter your view on that are they ----> well no-one on BE. A trained CBT therapist would challenge that a little . If this is a thread so you can go over old ground and gripes and have posters just agree with you then that is fine - BUT - this is an open forum and not all posters will agree with you . For me , I prefer to support rather than cosset .
If however this is about approaches to mental health overall and with C19 globally, then that is something other posters can post about & with you.
I wouldn't wish to read you have set yourself off with this thread of yours. It is precisely the sort of topic that will see you spark isn't it ,as what sparks you off is if other posters maybe have a differing viewpoint or perhaps challenge your own perceptions. Now - that is all a part of your BPD which a quality CBT could help with by modifying and challenging your behaviours in this. However that isn't present on BE, so all one can do is caution you to not seek to set off your own 'triggers' by sticking pins in your own eyes like this. It will not end well for you and make you act and feel dreadful.
It is 5pm evening your time. Step away from the screen (s) and go outside and do something else . You are in stuck record brood mood & so the mind needs help to reset. Go out and think how wonderful it is that you have moved area against all the odds. That you will take up school and CBT therapy. Think how much better where you are is than where you both were.
Oh and --- take some pics of that lake and post here. Far better for the mind and I would like to see.
Aug 9th 2020, 1:08 am
#15
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,813
Re: Mental Health Research Mental Health Hospitalization
It's extremely important for everyone to disconnect every now and again and talk to people in person. As a society I feel as though we are losing the ability to communicate in person, instead people would rather email or text. As a child of the 70's I grew up playing with kids on the street, I didn't connect with people 'online' until I was at least 25 years old.
I know I am very lucky, I still have a job and a home; however that doesn't fill the void left by a lack of human contact
Last edited by Pollyana; Aug 9th 2020 at 1:14 am.