Masks

Old Apr 13th 2022, 1:06 am
  #901  
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd
This is it, everyone needs to respect the individuals opinion...
I'd prefer it if some facts were respected rather than your average member of the public. That's why we have experts isn't it?
Prof Devi Sridhar is chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh
...while Omicron is milder than Delta, it is still hospitalising and killing people, especially those who are unvaccinated, the clinically vulnerable (including some for whom vaccines are ineffective), and elderly people. Waning immunity is also an ongoing concern, as is making sure boosters are provided at the right time...Increasing evidence has been produced that shows the negative impact Covid-19 infection has on the lungs, heart and brain or even the development of diabetes. Long Covid prevalence estimates are eye-wateringly high......a group of fellow scientists and I suggest in a new paper for Nature Medicine (REF), several steps can help...the triad of testing, therapeutics (in particular, rapid antiviral pills) and vaccines...Second, rapid response plans must be prepared...Third, rapid testing to detect infectiousness and one-way masking should continue to be used to protect those most at risk of infection (healthcare workers and social care workers), as well as those most at risk of severe health outcomes...Finally, long Covid hasn’t received the attention it deserves. An increasing number of people who are unable to return to work, or suffering from chronic illness, will be a major burden on healthcare services as well as the economy
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 1:49 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by BristolUK
I'd prefer it if some facts were respected rather than your average member of the public. That's why we have experts isn't it?
Prof Devi Sridhar is chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh
Your 'facts' are debatable as Paul_Shepherd was getting at.

I have no doubt that in a clinical trial with the right type of masks and perfect etiquette and use of the mask it will in fact help significantly with the spread of COVID.
Then there is the reality of masks and mask wearers, some masks as others have suggested are quite literally fabric, only get washed once in a while, become damp, are constantly touched, removed, and placed on tables and desks so that we can eat or talk on the phone.

If you really want to mandate masks then we do need to have people wear proper masks and ensure that they are changed on a regular basis (like every hour, max every 4 hours). As it's a health and safety item then they should be provided by the people that mandate them. So expect drop shipments of N95 masks from your local MP I guess.

I still wear a mask at work, as do all of my colleagues as its company policy, we had a mini outbreak at work where about 10 workers out of 40 (25%) ended up with COVID. The people who got COVID were pretty random in terms of hygiene and mask etiquette.

Almost Canadian may be misrepresenting things to support his point of view, as you are misrepresenting things to support your point of view. All you need to do is look at the UK where England and Scotland have essentially the same living conditions, environments and wealth but the mask mandate didn't help with the spread in Scotland when compared to the unmandated England, in fact Scotlands COVID spread was worse (I'm not suggesting or attributing that to the mandated mask) it's just a simple truth.

Again where my opinions always lie is, if you try to force somebody to do something that is not inherently natural, you are forcing an agenda and as such, you are liable to any negative impacts accounted to what you are pushing. It's not to say if you wear masks you are weak or evil, it's simply to say, some people prefer not to wear a mask. They are not the cause of COVID and the mask is not the solution under any science. It is simply 1 tool of many that can in ideal circumstances help stop the spread.

Last edited by ArthurBrit; Apr 13th 2022 at 1:51 am.
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 2:08 am
  #903  
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by BristolUK
You were quoted so I saw your misleading statement.

See that's what I meant about dog whistle. You make a statement that everyone is going to interpret one particular way but you throw in a subjective word like significant and a randomised to claim that wasn't what you said.

And now you're claiming I didn't read you properly by mentioning Denmark and India which were not in the post quoted by gozit. Very dishonest of you.

You keep quoting the CDC - or rather you don't quote them, you just say what you think they said - and I quote the very same CDC back at you and you dismiss it.
Here we go again. I can't help how people interpret what I say. If they read something into what I said that wasn't there, that is a matter for them.

I am not dishonest. I note you have the same problem when you post in other sections of this site too. I suggest you look to discover the common denominator here, and it isn't me.

I used randomized in both of my posts above. I accept that I changed "significant" to "little effect" but I would suggest that they, taken in the context in which they were used, had the same effect.

People's interpretation of data isn't data, it's an opinion. Data is data. If you can show that anything I have stated above is incorrect, by referring to data, please do so.
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 2:18 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by ArthurBrit

Almost Canadian may be misrepresenting things to support his point of view, as you are misrepresenting things to support your point of view. All you need to do is look at the UK where England and Scotland have essentially the same living conditions, environments and wealth but the mask mandate didn't help with the spread in Scotland when compared to the unmandated England, in fact Scotlands COVID spread was worse (I'm not suggesting or attributing that to the mandated mask) it's just a simple truth.
I don't have a view. I am a Type I diabetic and, as I am north of 50, I guess I am in the vulnerable category. I have had two shots of Pfizer. I haven't been boosted as, once again, the data suggests that there will be a minimal benefit to me by doing so.

I am fine if people wish to wear masks. I am fine if people wish to have booster shots. I am fine if people wish to remain unvaccinated as, if they have survived to this point, are not old and do not have underlying conditions, they are likely to be fine.

I look to evidence, particularly data, to inform my position. The current variants are clearly less potent and more transmissible. As such, I doubt very much that mask wearing will prevent any spread at all and society simply has to accept that everyone is going to get this at some point. Those that are vulnerable should do all they can to protect themselves and, if I was one of them, I would wear a respirator at all times "just in case". If I wasn't happy with what others were doing, I would stay away from them. Everyone has their own risk tolerance and should not expect everyone else to accept, or not accept, their own risk tolerance.
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 2:22 am
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Default Re: Masks

It's interesting to see people's opinions shift at this stage in the pandemic, we have hundreds of thousands of cases and the majority are continuing life as normal, with minimal pandemic restrictions. But a year ago we had maybe 1/10 of the cases, if that, and it was all a huge issue and we had to close everything down.
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 2:40 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Gozit
It's interesting to see people's opinions shift at this stage in the pandemic, we have hundreds of thousands of cases and the majority are continuing life as normal, with minimal pandemic restrictions. But a year ago we had maybe 1/10 of the cases, if that, and it was all a huge issue and we had to close everything down.
I think people are more concerned with the upcoming financial crisis than they are of catching COVID.
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 2:53 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Gozit
It's interesting to see people's opinions shift at this stage in the pandemic, we have hundreds of thousands of cases and the majority are continuing life as normal, with minimal pandemic restrictions. But a year ago we had maybe 1/10 of the cases, if that, and it was all a huge issue and we had to close everything down.
A year ago we weren't as well vaxed as we are now.

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Old Apr 13th 2022, 3:46 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Danny B
I think people are more concerned with the upcoming financial crisis than they are of catching COVID.

In the UK, maybe. Are the Canadians planning on having a financial crisis too?
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 4:42 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by dbd33
In the UK, maybe. Are the Canadians planning on having a financial crisis too?
I'd suggest that most people, in most jurisdictions, have no idea about the financial goings on of their government. They only care about how much money is deposited to their bank accounts (by their employers or by the government) in any given month. That being the case, the fact that the borrowing costs of lots of governments around the world are about to skyrocket will concern them as much as whether man will make it to Mars will.
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 4:42 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Danny B
I think people are more concerned with the upcoming financial crisis than they are of catching COVID.
Yep...thats the main thing I am concerned about. massive almost irretrievable global debt, out of control inflation, rocketing fuel prices caused by that clown in Russia which is just going push the price of everything up in addtion to inflation..... the future does not look bright at all. Covid is just another item on the list to complicate and add more misery to our lives.

Wish I could be a bit more cheerful, but here we are.
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 4:45 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by dbd33
In the UK, maybe. Are the Canadians planning on having a financial crisis too?
I'm no expert, but I think people are fearing for the worst.

Bank of Canada raised its interest rate by half a percentage point this morning, the biggest hike in 22 years. House price bubble will cool, energy prices are high, and workers are not getting pay rises on the same scale as inflation.
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 4:47 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
I don't have a view. I am a Type I diabetic and, as I am north of 50, I guess I am in the vulnerable category. I have had two shots of Pfizer. I haven't been boosted as, once again, the data suggests that there will be a minimal benefit to me by doing so.

I am fine if people wish to wear masks. I am fine if people wish to have booster shots. I am fine if people wish to remain unvaccinated as, if they have survived to this point, are not old and do not have underlying conditions, they are likely to be fine.

I look to evidence, particularly data, to inform my position. The current variants are clearly less potent and more transmissible. As such, I doubt very much that mask wearing will prevent any spread at all and society simply has to accept that everyone is going to get this at some point. Those that are vulnerable should do all they can to protect themselves and, if I was one of them, I would wear a respirator at all times "just in case". If I wasn't happy with what others were doing, I would stay away from them. Everyone has their own risk tolerance and should not expect everyone else to accept, or not accept, their own risk tolerance.
That is also how I see our current situation.
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 5:05 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by ArthurBrit
Your 'facts' are debatable as Paul_Shepherd was getting at.
Not really. Paul's post suggest people respected opinions. If both the WHO and the CDC state there are benefits to wearing masks then that's we should be respecting as a priority.

For the record, AC predicted there would be no second wave. Since then he's made a series of posts throwing doubt on the benefits of mask wearing and the usefulness of vaccines, in particular claiming research showed that recovery from covid provided longer protection than the vaccine. I quoted the researchers own conclusion that showed the results were not clear cut because the vaccinated group in their sample had their booster vaccines longer ago than the recoveries of the 'had covid' group, so there had been more time for vaccines to wane than there had been for the compared group.

AC claimed his doctor, following CDC advice, had decided that having recovered from covid there was no advantage to him having the vaccine and he agreed with that. Again I quoted the CDC advice that a vaccine in addition to the covid recovery was the best protection one could get.

AC tried to claim I'd been quoting a journalist's interpretation but the report actually quoted the CDC's own statement.

Throughout the pandemic AC has done nothing but cast doubt on all the guidance most of the world has been following.









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Old Apr 13th 2022, 5:52 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Danny B
I'm no expert, but I think people are fearing for the worst.

Bank of Canada raised its interest rate by half a percentage point this morning, the biggest hike in 22 years. House price bubble will cool, energy prices are high, and workers are not getting pay rises on the same scale as inflation.
Ah well, I did suggest that my daughter lock in the rate on her new multi-million dollar mortgage for as long as possible. I hope she did but the house is to live in, it doesn't really matter what the nominal value is, so long as the payment is affordable.

In our industry wages are booming. Last autumn we had a choice of Project Managers at 110-120, now they're 140-150/hr. A colleague just walked away from $35,000 in retention bonus expecting to make it up in improved rate. It feels more boom than bust.
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Old Apr 13th 2022, 6:02 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by BristolUK
Not really. Paul's post suggest people respected opinions. If both the WHO and the CDC state there are benefits to wearing masks then that's we should be respecting as a priority.

For the record, AC predicted there would be no second wave. Since then he's made a series of posts throwing doubt on the benefits of mask wearing and the usefulness of vaccines, in particular claiming research showed that recovery from covid provided longer protection than the vaccine. I quoted the researchers own conclusion that showed the results were not clear cut because the vaccinated group in their sample had their booster vaccines longer ago than the recoveries of the 'had covid' group, so there had been more time for vaccines to wane than there had been for the compared group.

AC claimed his doctor, following CDC advice, had decided that having recovered from covid there was no advantage to him having the vaccine and he agreed with that. Again I quoted the CDC advice that a vaccine in addition to the covid recovery was the best protection one could get.

AC tried to claim I'd been quoting a journalist's interpretation but the report actually quoted the CDC's own statement.

Throughout the pandemic AC has done nothing but cast doubt on all the guidance most of the world has been following.
FFS. I really wish you would stick to facts.

I didn't state that there would be no second wave. I stated that I'd wager that there will be no second wave. I note that you didn't take that bet.

The CDC's own data stated that the data showed that those with natural acquired immunity had longer lasting protection than those whose immunity was obtained via vaccination. They then went on to say that this may be because of the reason that you have referred to but, as far as I am aware, no subsequent data has actually confirmed such a hypothesis.

You now appear to want to criticise me for the decision that my doctor made. WTF?

I have been reviewing the data. Most of the world followed the guidance of the WHO in not closing their borders. China was able to stop the spread within its own borders quite well. If the rest of the world had stopped residents from the affected areas in China from travelling to within their borders, cooperated with the international community (I trust you are aware the WHO was unable to carry out the investigation it wished to as the Chinese refused them the access their required) there is an argument that it wouldn't have affected the world the way it has.

I have done most of what you seem to suggest I haven't done. I am simply pointing out to those that are not willing to find it themselves that what is actually been reported by the mainstream media, isn't necessarily what the data is showing.

I accept that politicians have been given a relatively free reign to do what they wish to during the last 2 years and have not had to respond to sensible questions that have been asked. I am confident that they wish to continue to do so. That being the case, is it any wonder that they wish to continue to convince the electorate that measures are necessary, when they may not be?

Last edited by Almost Canadian; Apr 13th 2022 at 7:06 am.
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