Masks

Old Mar 24th 2022, 10:40 am
  #811  
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Default Re: Masks

I wonder how many others are starting to feel like me, and are withdrawing from society as much as possible. Not because of fear of catching COVID, I couldn't give a rats whatsit if I catch it, with a bit of luck it would finish me off and solve a lot of problems for several people. No, I'm giving up because I'm tired of being a selfish cow.
For a short time I started piecing my life together again, but now I'm gradually finding myself withdrawing from life because so many people are piling on the guilt-trips. Last night I was told in graphic detail how someone's brother was bleeding from numerous orifices, as a result of COVID which he had probably caught from someone out enjoying themselves. A colleague last week informed me that by breaking my kitkat in two and sharing it with someone else I was causing COVID to spread faster. I have been asked to walk to work (90 minutes) instead of getting the bus as I will be bringing in COVID from the others on the bus. People casually mentioning that they have been in one shop or another are asked "did you have a mask on?" "did everyone else have a mask on?"
I just can't deal with it, I am so tired of having to justify and explain (in COVID-friendly terms) my every move, that I have virtually given up. I shop online, I drink at home, groceries are delivered. I don't go out any more except to work. The constant reminders that if I go out and enjoy myself, other people could die, are very wearing and the people making the accusations pile it on so strong that I no longer have the spirit to fight it.
On reflection, maybe the nay-sayers are right and all those of us who are healthy and want to get back to enjoying a bit of life again are just being selfish and should be staying home so that the vulnerable people can have their lives back instead. The idea of the two different sectors of society mingling together is rejected by most people (not just on here but on other platforms as well) and I guess thats the way the future is going. We all have a little box to live in, so lets just stay in the boxes. If you need to access care or medical services etc, thats ok - that allows the vulnerable people to have some kind of life as they can go out in relative safety, but none of us should be leaving our boxes for anything remotely resembling fun or enjoyment.
I'm tired of apologising to people for wanting my life back, so I'm giving up and am just not going to try any more.
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Old Mar 24th 2022, 11:17 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
I would suggest that most do not have a problem with distancing now.
I would suggest that if masking is not a requirement and there are no capacity limits anywhere, that buses and smaller shops with a couple of customers and paying at the till are very obviously places at which much distancing is impossible.
Why the distinction between 100% vaccination and, let's say, over 90% vaccination? Why not 20% vaccination as I know that you accept that the vaccinated can still acquire, and spread, the virus?
I think you know the answer to this as we have discussed it several times. The lower covid load and the shorter period one is infectious make it a lot less likely to be spread by a vaccinated person.

I believe compromise has been talked about and this seems like a perfect example of a compromise.

Do you believe that, where the vaccinated and unvaccinated are allowed to mix, sporting events, concerts, etc., masking should be required for ever?
I believe - because the stats say so - that the current form of the virus, while more mild, is far more infectious and as a result of infecting many more people it's killing and hospitalising as many people as it was before the current variant became dominant. Any (lack of) measure that assists its spread to ever increasing numbers doesn't seem like the best response.

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Old Mar 24th 2022, 11:19 am
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Default Re: Masks

We have been lead down this path of be kind to others, wear a mask for others and seen society split between vaccinated and non vaccinated where its deemed acceptable to ridicule people who don't fit your narrative and all the time we look to the government or health big wigs or scientists to tell us what to do to make us all safe. We have lost the plot regarding the basics of keeping ourselves safe. To comment on a previous posters seatbelt analogy, which has been done to death when talking about masks, we wear a seatbelt to protect us, the driver/passenger, NOT to protect other road users. So in essence we should wear a mask to protect us NOT other people. It's long been known that N95 masks offer the best protection so anyone who is concerned or health compromised could wear one of these when out doing essential things and feel reasonably safe in doing so. If we suggest that other people should be considerate and wear a mask while shopping as its only for a short time we are forgetting the people who work in these environments who would then be obliged to wear one ALL day even though the mandate has gone, so it's not just about a few of us popping one on for a few minutes it's about much more than that. We also know that the mandate as was did not really deal with the problem in a very logical manner but we also know that if there were too many variations on when to wear one it would be impossible to enact so it was a blanket mandate because that is easy to enforce. An interesting viewpoint from an article on a local media outlet stated:Caroline Colijn, a mathematics professor at Simon Fraser Universityin Burnaby, B.C., said there is enough evidence to show that people who wear masks are less likely to get infected.

But what scientists don't know is exactly how many infections were prevented because of masks, she added. That's partly because people don't wear masks in everyday interactions and it is difficult to estimate what the number of infections would have been without them, she said.

"We don't really know enough to say in Canada how many infections mask wearing and mask mandates have prevented," Colijn said.
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Old Mar 24th 2022, 11:36 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by printer

"We don't really know enough to say in Canada how many infections mask wearing and mask mandates have prevented," Colijn said.
Does it matter? It's no bother and, if it avoids any infections, that's a good thing.

I think it's fine to ridicule the unvaxxed, they're no better than Brexiteers.

Last edited by dbd33; Mar 24th 2022 at 11:38 am.
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Old Mar 25th 2022, 1:43 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Pollyana
I wonder how many others are starting to feel like me, and are withdrawing from society as much as possible. Not because of fear of catching COVID, I couldn't give a rats whatsit if I catch it, with a bit of luck it would finish me off and solve a lot of problems for several people. No, I'm giving up because I'm tired of being a selfish cow.
For a short time I started piecing my life together again, but now I'm gradually finding myself withdrawing from life because so many people are piling on the guilt-trips. Last night I was told in graphic detail how someone's brother was bleeding from numerous orifices, as a result of COVID which he had probably caught from someone out enjoying themselves. A colleague last week informed me that by breaking my kitkat in two and sharing it with someone else I was causing COVID to spread faster. I have been asked to walk to work (90 minutes) instead of getting the bus as I will be bringing in COVID from the others on the bus. People casually mentioning that they have been in one shop or another are asked "did you have a mask on?" "did everyone else have a mask on?"
I just can't deal with it, I am so tired of having to justify and explain (in COVID-friendly terms) my every move, that I have virtually given up. I shop online, I drink at home, groceries are delivered. I don't go out any more except to work. The constant reminders that if I go out and enjoy myself, other people could die, are very wearing and the people making the accusations pile it on so strong that I no longer have the spirit to fight it.
On reflection, maybe the nay-sayers are right and all those of us who are healthy and want to get back to enjoying a bit of life again are just being selfish and should be staying home so that the vulnerable people can have their lives back instead. The idea of the two different sectors of society mingling together is rejected by most people (not just on here but on other platforms as well) and I guess thats the way the future is going. We all have a little box to live in, so lets just stay in the boxes. If you need to access care or medical services etc, thats ok - that allows the vulnerable people to have some kind of life as they can go out in relative safety, but none of us should be leaving our boxes for anything remotely resembling fun or enjoyment.
I'm tired of apologising to people for wanting my life back, so I'm giving up and am just not going to try any more.
This...
The government/media has irresponsibly scared the complete **** out of people and we're at a point whereby some of us have decided to not live in fear but to simply accept the risk and limit exposure where possible (these people are for whatever reason are unfairly brandished as 'anti-vaxxers', purely to try and instantly degrade the character of the person and make them seem in league with stupid people who have no valid argument). Others on the other hand have decided to take the governments bait and are locked in this trap whereby the only way to get through this is to go in a bunker and wait it out. You know what, if you want to be in a bunker that's 100% okay, but don't make rules for the rest of us.

This is why I love New Zealand's story so much. They literally shut down their exposure to the entire world, fully vaccinated 90+% their population then opened up their borders and what happened? They got sick...It wasn't a shock to me or most people because the vaccine reduces the effects of COVID it's doesn't create full immunity.

Unfortunately no amount of "being safe" is going to make COVID go away, the only way to make COVID better is by the population getting exposed, ideally not all at once.

If you want to wear a mask (and generally I do). Then wear the mask, but don't force this on everyone. Don't judge the people who don't want to. Let them live, let them choose. As others have said, if you only want to go to places with 100% vaccination rates, maybe...Just stay home, because you live in a diverse world and you are not allowing for diversity.

Last edited by ArthurBrit; Mar 25th 2022 at 1:47 am.
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Old Mar 25th 2022, 2:04 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Pollyana
I wonder how many others are starting to feel like me, and are withdrawing from society as much as possible. Not because of fear of catching COVID, I couldn't give a rats whatsit if I catch it, with a bit of luck it would finish me off and solve a lot of problems for several people. No, I'm giving up because I'm tired of being a selfish cow.
For a short time I started piecing my life together again, but now I'm gradually finding myself withdrawing from life because so many people are piling on the guilt-trips. Last night I was told in graphic detail how someone's brother was bleeding from numerous orifices, as a result of COVID which he had probably caught from someone out enjoying themselves. A colleague last week informed me that by breaking my kitkat in two and sharing it with someone else I was causing COVID to spread faster. I have been asked to walk to work (90 minutes) instead of getting the bus as I will be bringing in COVID from the others on the bus. People casually mentioning that they have been in one shop or another are asked "did you have a mask on?" "did everyone else have a mask on?"
I just can't deal with it, I am so tired of having to justify and explain (in COVID-friendly terms) my every move, that I have virtually given up. I shop online, I drink at home, groceries are delivered. I don't go out any more except to work. The constant reminders that if I go out and enjoy myself, other people could die, are very wearing and the people making the accusations pile it on so strong that I no longer have the spirit to fight it.
On reflection, maybe the nay-sayers are right and all those of us who are healthy and want to get back to enjoying a bit of life again are just being selfish and should be staying home so that the vulnerable people can have their lives back instead. The idea of the two different sectors of society mingling together is rejected by most people (not just on here but on other platforms as well) and I guess thats the way the future is going. We all have a little box to live in, so lets just stay in the boxes. If you need to access care or medical services etc, thats ok - that allows the vulnerable people to have some kind of life as they can go out in relative safety, but none of us should be leaving our boxes for anything remotely resembling fun or enjoyment.
I'm tired of apologising to people for wanting my life back, so I'm giving up and am just not going to try any more.

I fully understand the way you feel, and I fully empathise, I don't think your alone, as I said there is a balance between staying healthy and living a normal life.


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Old Mar 25th 2022, 2:07 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by ArthurBrit
This...
The government/media has irresponsibly scared the complete **** out of people and we're at a point whereby some of us have decided to not live in fear but to simply accept the risk and limit exposure where possible (these people are for whatever reason are unfairly brandished as 'anti-vaxxers', purely to try and instantly degrade the character of the person and make them seem in league with stupid people who have no valid argument). Others on the other hand have decided to take the governments bait and are locked in this trap whereby the only way to get through this is to go in a bunker and wait it out. You know what, if you want to be in a bunker that's 100% okay, but don't make rules for the rest of us.

This is why I love New Zealand's story so much. They literally shut down their exposure to the entire world, fully vaccinated 90+% their population then opened up their borders and what happened? They got sick...It wasn't a shock to me or most people because the vaccine reduces the effects of COVID it's doesn't create full immunity.

Unfortunately no amount of "being safe" is going to make COVID go away, the only way to make COVID better is by the population getting exposed, ideally not all at once.

If you want to wear a mask (and generally I do). Then wear the mask, but don't force this on everyone. Don't judge the people who don't want to. Let them live, let them choose. As others have said, if you only want to go to places with 100% vaccination rates, maybe...Just stay home, because you live in a diverse world and you are not allowing for diversity.


Well said, to hear common sense is always so refreshing these days.

New Zealand is ridiculous, I have no idea what she is trying to achieve, her plan is deeply flawed







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Old Mar 25th 2022, 2:30 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Pollyana
...I was told in graphic detail how someone's brother was bleeding from numerous orifices, as a result of COVID which he had probably caught from someone out enjoying themselves. A colleague last week informed me that by breaking my kitkat in two and sharing it with someone else I was causing COVID to spread faster...
That's just extreme idiocy and should be filed away with such nonsense as stolen elections, lizards governing us, vaccines inserting micro-chips and so on.
Originally Posted by ArthurBrit
The government/media has irresponsibly scared the complete **** out of people
All these mandates being lifted would suggest the complete opposite wouldn't it?
and we're at a point whereby some of us have decided to not live in fear
I don't know anyone who has been living in fear nor have I read about anyone living in fear. I do know and have heard of people taking precautions, like they would when, say, cutting vegetables with a sharp knife or perhaps using a step ladder instead of climbing onto a chair on top of a table.

Would you describe someone using a thimble when sewing as living in fear or is it just something that stops the needle sticking in your finger?
Others on the other hand have decided to take the governments bait and are locked in this trap whereby the only way to get through this is to go in a bunker and wait it out. You know what, if you want to be in a bunker that's 100% okay, but don't make rules for the rest of us.
Do you actually know anyone behaving as if they are in a bunker and not coming out? "Take the government's bait?" Isn't that just a teensiest bit conspiracy theorist?
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Old Mar 25th 2022, 2:36 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by BristolUK
I would suggest that if masking is not a requirement and there are no capacity limits anywhere, that buses and smaller shops with a couple of customers and paying at the till are very obviously places at which much distancing is impossible.

I think you know the answer to this as we have discussed it several times. The lower covid load and the shorter period one is infectious make it a lot less likely to be spread by a vaccinated person.

I believe compromise has been talked about and this seems like a perfect example of a compromise.


I believe - because the stats say so - that the current form of the virus, while more mild, is far more infectious and as a result of infecting many more people it's killing and hospitalising as many people as it was before the current variant became dominant. Any (lack of) measure that assists its spread to ever increasing numbers doesn't seem like the best response.
So by what metric will masking no longer be required in any situation that most people would find themselves in?
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Old Mar 25th 2022, 2:37 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by BristolUK
That's just extreme idiocy and should be filed away with such nonsense as stolen elections, lizards governing us, vaccines inserting micro-chips and so on.

All these mandates being lifted would suggest the complete opposite wouldn't it?

I don't know anyone who has been living in fear nor have I read about anyone living in fear. I do know and have heard of people taking precautions, like they would when, say, cutting vegetables with a sharp knife or perhaps using a step ladder instead of climbing onto a chair on top of a table.
As I keep saying precautions are fine. Trying to get 7bn people to agree with the precautions is moronic.
Originally Posted by BristolUK
Would you describe someone using a thimble when sewing as living in fear or is it just something that stops the needle sticking in your finger?
I would say that a lot of people who work in the textiles industry, don't wear thimbles and subsequently don't get vilified for it.
Originally Posted by BristolUK
Do you actually know anyone behaving as if they are in a bunker and not coming out? "Take the government's bait?" Isn't that just a teensiest bit conspiracy theorist?
I know plenty of people that have become hermits...so yes...
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Old Mar 25th 2022, 2:42 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by ArthurBrit
these people are for whatever reason are unfairly brandished as 'anti-vaxxers'
People who have chosen not to be vaccinated are not unfairly brandished (at let me say I wish I had the arms to brandish anyone) as 'anti-vaxxers'. They're appropriately mocked and derided for not being vaccinated.
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Old Mar 25th 2022, 2:42 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd

New Zealand is ridiculous, I have no idea what she is trying to achieve, her plan is deeply flawed
Could we just clarify something. Worldometer lists New Zealand as being 192nd in a list of 227 according to death rates, with the UK coming in at 34. The higher up the list, the higher the death rate.

Is that the flawed New Zealand of which you speak?
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Old Mar 25th 2022, 2:43 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
So by what metric will masking no longer be required in any situation that most people would find themselves in?
Fewer people dying than currently sounds like a good idea.
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Old Mar 25th 2022, 2:49 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by dbd33
People who have chosen not to be vaccinated are not unfairly brandished (at let me say I wish I had the arms to brandish anyone) as 'anti-vaxxers'. They're appropriately mocked and derided for not being vaccinated.
No they shouldn't be mocked. There are plenty of extremely intelligent people refusing to be vaccinated, including many medical professionals.

I'm not one of them but I understand their plight, what doesn't help is the media only highlights the dumb ones, and similarly they only highlight the doctors/scientists that agree with people being forced to vaccinate.

There are many reasons why people might feel uneasy about being vaccinated and although I personally don't agree with them, I do respect their right to chose.
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Old Mar 25th 2022, 3:09 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by ArthurBrit

I'm not one of them but I understand their plight,
.
How are they experiencing plight? They've elected not to join in a worldwide effort to deal with a pandemic, they've displayed selfishness and all they've had to suffer is unemployment. That's not plight in the sense of that experienced by people who did nothing wrong and caught covid.
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