Masks

Old Sep 10th 2020, 8:30 pm
  #496  
 
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by BristolUK
I managed to find something I posted some time back. This article is either 5th April or 4th May
Yeah, well it was obvious to me at the time, that although the lie was repeated by the WHO and US and UK governments, among others, it was utter BS ..... And very brief research at that time found that I can fabricate a very good multi-layer mask from a basic paper "cup" mask, with a folded shop towel liner, and then held firmly in place with a naeck gaiter.
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Old Sep 11th 2020, 1:02 am
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Default Re: Masks

Is this becoming a very sad world where we eject a family from an aircraft, not because they were drunk or abusive or threatening or had banned substances, no because their 3 year old wasn't wearing a mask!
It's a sad state of affairs when an airline thinks that the safety of all on board is compromised due to a 3 year old. Heavy handed tactics and unnecessary.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...mask-1.5716636
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Old Sep 11th 2020, 1:28 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by printer
Is this becoming a very sad world where we eject a family from an aircraft, not because they were drunk or abusive or threatening or had banned substances, no because their 3 year old wasn't wearing a mask!
It's a sad state of affairs when an airline thinks that the safety of all on board is compromised due to a 3 year old. Heavy handed tactics and unnecessary. ...
So it's OK for one person on a plane to flout the rule that everyone on board aged two or more must wear a mask? How do we decide who gets to flout? What if two people want to flout the rule, or three? Where should the cut off be?

The parents knew the rule before they boarded the flight, so they should have done some "training" beforehand, not wait until they're on the flight then discover their child is going to have a meltdown!
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Old Sep 11th 2020, 1:52 am
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Default Re: Masks

I have seen conflicting info about the Westjet incident, parents said the airline was fussing over the 19 month old which isn't required to wear a mask, airline say's otherwise, the truth is in the middle somewhere of course.

They were on employee guest passes so that employee who gave them the passes will likely get into trouble or terminated, airlines take misbehavior while on non-revenue pass very seriously, and well the flight was cancelled, so that isn't going to help the employee's case.

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Old Sep 11th 2020, 5:21 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Pulaski
So it's OK for one person on a plane to flout the rule that everyone on board aged two or more must wear a mask? How do we decide who gets to flout? What if two people want to flout the rule, or three? Where should the cut off be?

The parents knew the rule before they boarded the flight, so they should have done some "training" beforehand, not wait until they're on the flight then discover their child is going to have a meltdown!
Some training beforehand? This isn't a dog, its a 3 year old child, who, like any other 3 year old has a limited understanding of important things and most certainly does not understand some airline regulation. The parents, by all accounts, did their best. What did you expect them to do? Strap her down, drug her? Lets not forget this was not a short flight either. How many 3 years olds do you know who would willingly wear a mask for a few hours without question. Christ some cannot even keep still for half that time. Are you afraid of a 3 year old without a mask? You ask where should the cut off be, well any reasonable sane person would i am sure agree that the rules would be strictly controlled where adults and older children are concerned but this was total overkill by the on board staff considering the child's age. There should have been some understanding and a bit of flexibility from the crew. Just remind them of the rules and ask them to do their best to help her wear it whenever possible and at all times when moving around the aircraft.
Having been on numerous flights over the years i have seen numerous young children having meltdowns, sometimes shit happens!
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Old Sep 11th 2020, 12:27 pm
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by printer
...some airline regulation...
It's universal isn't it? Something decided upon by numerous people, no doubt with much input from people quite well placed to know and who likely have evidence that the age at which the requirement applies is reasonable.

If it's as unreasonable as you suggest there would likely be very many such incidents daily.
I suppose the AAP might know one or two things about kids.
Luckily, there are things you can do to help your child become more comfortable with a face mask on the plane and beyond.

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends (AAP) putting the mask on a favorite stuffed animal, decorating the mask or wearing masks while looking in the mirror to normalize the experience — as will seeing parents and older siblings wearing masks. Of course, simply practicing wearing a mask at home will likely help kids wear it in less familiar situations.
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Old Sep 11th 2020, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by printer
Some training beforehand? This isn't a dog, its a 3 year old child, who, like any other 3 year old has a limited understanding of important things and most certainly does not understand some airline regulation. The parents, by all accounts, did their best. What did you expect them to do? ....
What Bristol said/ posted above.
..... Lets not forget this was not a short flight either. .....
All the more reason to apply the rules, I would say.
How many 3 years olds do you know who would willingly wear a mask for a few hours without question. ...
A few hours? .... the flight hadn't left the ground, or even the gate!
.... Are you afraid of a 3 year old without a mask? You ask where should the cut off be, ....
Er, where the regulation has set it?
well any reasonable sane person would i am sure agree that the rules would be strictly controlled where adults and older children are concerned but this was total overkill by the on board staff considering the child's age. There should have been some understanding and a bit of flexibility from the crew. Just remind them of the rules and ask them to do their best to help her wear it whenever possible and at all times when moving around the aircraft. ....
Not unreasonable once the flight has left the ground, but the kid apparently didn't have a mask on from the outset.
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Old Sep 11th 2020, 2:24 pm
  #503  
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by printer
Some training beforehand? This isn't a dog, its a 3 year old child, who, like any other 3 year old has a limited understanding of important things and most certainly does not understand some airline regulation. The parents, by all accounts, did their best. What did you expect them to do? Strap her down, drug her? Lets not forget this was not a short flight either. How many 3 years olds do you know who would willingly wear a mask for a few hours without question. Christ some cannot even keep still for half that time. Are you afraid of a 3 year old without a mask? You ask where should the cut off be, well any reasonable sane person would i am sure agree that the rules would be strictly controlled where adults and older children are concerned but this was total overkill by the on board staff considering the child's age. There should have been some understanding and a bit of flexibility from the crew. Just remind them of the rules and ask them to do their best to help her wear it whenever possible and at all times when moving around the aircraft.
Having been on numerous flights over the years i have seen numerous young children having meltdowns, sometimes shit happens!
Bristol and Pulaski have already answered your questions. I'd just like to emphasise that it's not "some airline regulation," it's a Transport Canada mandate. The airlines are required to enforce it; there are serious consequences for the airline if they do not. Clearly, if Westjet decided it was in the company's best interests to cancel the entire flight rather than bend the rules for one recalcitrant toddler, the airline takes that mandate seriously.
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Old Sep 12th 2020, 1:59 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
Bristol and Pulaski have already answered your questions. I'd just like to emphasise that it's not "some airline regulation," it's a Transport Canada mandate. The airlines are required to enforce it; there are serious consequences for the airline if they do not. Clearly, if Westjet decided it was in the company's best interests to cancel the entire flight rather than bend the rules for one recalcitrant toddler, the airline takes that mandate seriously.
Ok so what we are saying is it's now totally acceptable to treat a family with a "reluctant" 3 year old like terrorists and escort them from the plane, furthermore Westjet apparently stated that they could have even faced fines or prison??? What a 3 year old? Obviously not so the parents could have been even though they were as complicit as they could be with the regulations. Witnesses said they were softly spoken and tried their best to reason with the child, at no time did they become aggressive, threatening or refuse to abide by the rules but at the end of the day the whole plane was "held to ransom" by a 3 year old. How many of you on here have a 3 year old who would do as you asked 100% of the time? I have a friend who posted a picture of her 3 year old with a mask on and captioned it "if a 3 year old can wear one we all can" trouble is he had just been to Starbucks, he had a cookie in his hand and was happy. Maybe not as easy when he has been dragged around an airport for an hour or two, he's hungry, tired and that fun mask thing just isn't fun anymore. It happens and yes to agree with the earlier comment probably best not to fly at all until they are older.
You mention airlines taking the mandate seriously. So what exactly is the mandate? At what point are you allowed to remove mask? For food and drink of course. Is there a time limit on this? Are the crew constantly monitoring passengers and pounce if you are spotted having finished your snack and haven't put the mask back on? Clearly the mandate does not say you must NOT remove it under ANY circumstances at ANY time.
What if the 3 year old put it on and the plane took off and then 20 minutes in she decides she's had enough? Is the plane diverted to nearest airport or returned to base?
Some flexibility of the regulations due to age of person should be considered rather than a blanket "do it or your off" and clearly a lot of passengers felt the same as they were allegedly heckling the crew and police and it was decided not to fly for the safety of the "crew" rather than any other reason.
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Old Sep 12th 2020, 3:54 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by printer
Ok so what we are saying is it's now totally acceptable to treat a family with a "reluctant" 3 year old like terrorists and escort them from the plane, furthermore Westjet apparently stated that they could have even faced fines or prison??? What a 3 year old? Obviously not so the parents could have been even though they were as complicit as they could be with the regulations. Witnesses said they were softly spoken and tried their best to reason with the child, at no time did they become aggressive, threatening or refuse to abide by the rules but at the end of the day the whole plane was "held to ransom" by a 3 year old. How many of you on here have a 3 year old who would do as you asked 100% of the time? I have a friend who posted a picture of her 3 year old with a mask on and captioned it "if a 3 year old can wear one we all can" trouble is he had just been to Starbucks, he had a cookie in his hand and was happy. Maybe not as easy when he has been dragged around an airport for an hour or two, he's hungry, tired and that fun mask thing just isn't fun anymore. It happens and yes to agree with the earlier comment probably best not to fly at all until they are older.
You mention airlines taking the mandate seriously. So what exactly is the mandate? At what point are you allowed to remove mask? For food and drink of course. Is there a time limit on this? Are the crew constantly monitoring passengers and pounce if you are spotted having finished your snack and haven't put the mask back on? Clearly the mandate does not say you must NOT remove it under ANY circumstances at ANY time.
What if the 3 year old put it on and the plane took off and then 20 minutes in she decides she's had enough? Is the plane diverted to nearest airport or returned to base?
Some flexibility of the regulations due to age of person should be considered rather than a blanket "do it or your off" and clearly a lot of passengers felt the same as they were allegedly heckling the crew and police and it was decided not to fly for the safety of the "crew" rather than any other reason.
i am not ant-mask in any way, but this post seems entirely reasonable to me.
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Old Sep 12th 2020, 5:35 am
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by Teaandtoday5
i am not ant-mask in any way, but this post seems entirely reasonable to me.
Exactly when compared to idiots like this who deserve everything that's coming their way.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/126440...asyjet-flight/
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Old Sep 12th 2020, 1:48 pm
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by printer
Ok so what we are saying is it's now totally acceptable to treat a family with a "reluctant" 3 year old like terrorists.
Not that you're exaggerating or anything. That is the most ridiculous opening to a post I have ever read. It made the rest of it not even worth reading. Well done.
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Old Sep 12th 2020, 2:08 pm
  #508  
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by printer
Ok so what we are saying is it's now totally acceptable to treat a family with a "reluctant" 3 year old like terrorists and escort them from the plane, furthermore Westjet apparently stated that they could have even faced fines or prison??? What a 3 year old? Obviously not so the parents could have been even though they were as complicit as they could be with the regulations. Witnesses said they were softly spoken and tried their best to reason with the child, at no time did they become aggressive, threatening or refuse to abide by the rules but at the end of the day the whole plane was "held to ransom" by a 3 year old. How many of you on here have a 3 year old who would do as you asked 100% of the time? I have a friend who posted a picture of her 3 year old with a mask on and captioned it "if a 3 year old can wear one we all can" trouble is he had just been to Starbucks, he had a cookie in his hand and was happy. Maybe not as easy when he has been dragged around an airport for an hour or two, he's hungry, tired and that fun mask thing just isn't fun anymore. It happens and yes to agree with the earlier comment probably best not to fly at all until they are older.
You mention airlines taking the mandate seriously. So what exactly is the mandate? At what point are you allowed to remove mask? For food and drink of course. Is there a time limit on this? Are the crew constantly monitoring passengers and pounce if you are spotted having finished your snack and haven't put the mask back on? Clearly the mandate does not say you must NOT remove it under ANY circumstances at ANY time.
What if the 3 year old put it on and the plane took off and then 20 minutes in she decides she's had enough? Is the plane diverted to nearest airport or returned to base?
Some flexibility of the regulations due to age of person should be considered rather than a blanket "do it or your off" and clearly a lot of passengers felt the same as they were allegedly heckling the crew and police and it was decided not to fly for the safety of the "crew" rather than any other reason.
A plastic bag over the rowdy child's head would have fixed this problem.
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Old Sep 12th 2020, 2:51 pm
  #509  
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by printer
Is this becoming a very sad world where we eject a family from an aircraft, not because they were drunk or abusive or threatening or had banned substances, no because their 3 year old wasn't wearing a mask!
It's a sad state of affairs when an airline thinks that the safety of all on board is compromised due to a 3 year old. Heavy handed tactics and unnecessary.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...mask-1.5716636
Not that it matters (but seeing as this is a British forum) I just looked at the video clip of this interaction and it sounds like the Calgary cop is a Brit



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Old Sep 12th 2020, 4:31 pm
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Default Re: Masks

Originally Posted by BristolUK
Not that you're exaggerating or anything. That is the most ridiculous opening to a post I have ever read. It made the rest of it not even worth reading. Well done.
Exactly! I read the first sentence and decided the rest of the post was likely rabid ranting, and so didn't read it.
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