Re: Lest we forget...
 

Someone has to be the physical presence that backs up government policy and national interests. None of the service people get to directly choose what that policy is, its the politicians who dictate that. In some cases they may well disagree with it, but they have to go apply it as necessary anyway.

I think it harsh to make a moral judgement about people who are simply following the orders of their democratically elected leaders, who by extension are making policy on behalf of the people they represent, and like it or not you are one of those people.

Now who is abdicating responsibility here?

Re: Lest we forget...
 

but it doesn't. emergency services are not remembered on this day, they have their own, as they have their own memorials. you could argue endlessly on macho jobs, i think oil riggers are very macho for instance, i don't hear them being mentioned at all.
and don't forget their was conscription after WW1 and WW2, national service seeing action in suez and korea amongst others.

Re: Lest we forget...
 

The generations that lived through the war are unfortunately not the main part of our lives anymore.

It was the norm to have school projects to talk to your own family about the war - much more personal - I still have family postcards from WWI, rationbooks from WWII - plus I was taught completely inappropriate WWI songs by my grandma from her own youth (which I can't recall now).

I still now cannot believe the horrors some went through.

Yes war was glorified by some in WWI - the studies of war literature shows that - and yes it remains a business from which some profit (a lot) today.

Actually, I think Remembrance Day in UK is taken more seriously, than say 15-20 yrs ago, but then given the years of overseas wars & peacekeeping is affecting more & more, it is more real again, and less 'just' history.

Won't stop some having a go though...

Re: Lest we forget...
 

We have abdicated responsibilty for the actions of the government by emigrating; we can no longer vote.

I don't think it fair to say that members of the armed forces are "are simply following the orders of their democratically elected leaders", that's true of conscripts but people who volunteer for the forces know what they're getting into; they choose to join the pointless conflicts overseas. I suppose there's a case for saying "if they enjoy it, let them do it" as if they were motorcycling without helmets but that implies indifference, not respect.

Re: Lest we forget...
 

Nuclear attack came later :(

Re: Lest we forget...
 

i'm not being patronising here, i'm simply going to point this out as you seem to have no knowledge of the military, which may be possible.

When you enlist, sign on, join, you have to serve for a minimum amount of time. this varies from service to service. there are also differences in length of service depending on which trade you join. those wanting to qualify as an electrical engineer may be required to serve as long as 5yrs. during this period they may of course be deployed operationally and this will be made abundantly clear. however, the appeal to some of a regular income, job security, trade, roof over their head and support of the forces in their life, outweigh this risk.

during this period of service, you cannot get out, unless disabled, imprisoned, on psychiatric grounds or the obvious. should you go AWOL or disobey the orders to deploy, consequences are severe, and not necessarily including dismissal, so its not an easy out.

by this point there is also the psychological element, the feeling of having to 'do your duty', whatever that may mean personally to you. to some it is a glory hunt obviously, i would contend to most though this means nothing more than sticking with your mate, who you have just spent the last 3yrs of your life with sharing everything, day in day out.

Re: Lest we forget...
 

You have the option to apply for canadian citizenship..you have opted not to, so its very convenient for you to say "I cant vote". Truth is you could vote, you just cant be bothered, and thats a different thing.(again an abdication of responsibility?)

Even if they are professional soldiers who entered the forces fully aware of the risks, I still think its worth giving up a few hours of one day to acknowledge that it they were not prepared to stand in harms way, then maybe it would be me in their place.

Re: Lest we forget...
 

You must fall into the rather scary 60% of the sampled population who didnt realise it was the AMERICANS who dropped the bomb;)

Re: Lest we forget...
 

I can't stand that the whole thing is so po-faced and dull. Didn't they celebrate the end of the war by having a massive piss-up and shagfest on the sort of scale not seen since the days of Ancient Rome?

I'd be all in favour of that kind of memorial service.

Re: Lest we forget...
 

I hardly think they're likely to start conscripting people to go to Afghanistan.

Re: Lest we forget...
 

Yes, some people like to be in the army. Yes, there's a culture wherein any form of dirty work is excused as duty. What I'm not seeing is why that should command any sort of interest or regard from those who choose not to participate. We're not expected to honour people who choose to work at the Passport Office or in a bank.

Re: Lest we forget...
 

British Expats can vote - just for the UK -advert on BE in fact to remind them.

Met a few RAF, SAS, TA, Navy Reserves - they might enjoy the people they work with, I have never yet met one who likes or wants war & the trauma is real.

I am anti-war, but having respect and empathy is hardly glorification..

Any major loss of life is remembered in its own way without judgement - Bradford City Fire, Hillsborough, 7/7 etc, just this is the one for the largest losses that affects the nation/s as a whole.

Re: Lest we forget...
 

I do have a Canadian passport. I don't vote in Canada as I don't feel it to be my place to meddle in the affairs of a foreign country.

Or maybe no-one.

Re: Lest we forget...
 

Only for a limited period. It was my habit to line up to get the form to vote against Mrs. Thatcher.

Re: Lest we forget...
 

this happens later in the legion.

i would recommend attendance of this after service get together for some to share their thoughts with the men and women in the club.
as no one has mentioned joining me at my war memorial, or spouting off their opinions outside theirs, i guess this offer will not be taken up either. what a surprise.
i'd have more respect for those opposed to this if they could say they have attended some kind of anti war protest or similar. but i imagine the antipathy they feel on here is matched by their lack of action in real life.