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if the scots go, do you care?

if the scots go, do you care?

Old Feb 11th 2014, 5:28 am
  #121  
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd View Post
One thing I have noticed from people on here, is that its mostly people who originate from England that don't want Scotland to leave the union, (myself included) strange really as Scotland would be the worse off after such a split. I think the union works, as I said before im British first English second.

The only real argument Scotland has for independence is that its needs were ignored by Westminster, but I suppose the same could be said for any other region of the UK outside the capital and its surrounding areas.

The needs of England have been ignored by Westminster aswell, as you say, they can't really use that as an excuse.

How far do we take this independence thing, if people want to break up Britain why not go a step further and break up England into the three kingdoms it once was.

I feel the pro independence lobby is just people thinking with their hearts and not with their heads.
I think you're bang on with the last part especially, it's like Salmonds campaign consists solely of Braveheart on a loop. The reaction of similarly minded English is, 'well if you want it it's total independence, if you cock it up, don't come crawling to us'
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 6:23 am
  #122  
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Let them have independence.. Hopefully they will lose the chip on the shoulder.
In fact thay should move the boarder down to include liverpool then they can all mince around in shell suites feeling hard done by, by the English together.
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 6:51 am
  #123  
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

pretty good point above, if they went for it, we could set a deadline for all Scottish problems to cease being Englands fault, hmmmmm
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 11:46 am
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by Tangram View Post
If anyone really....I mean REALLY cared about the place, they would still be living there
Some of us do, that's why some of us return.
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 11:50 am
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by Gillymonkey View Post
Have you actually been to East Kilbride recently? That is where I am from and all my family are still there. Yes there are some rough parts like any major town however there are also lots of really nice parts. I'd choose to live there over many of the Glasgow suburbs any day!
and a few of the Toronto suburbs also

Last edited by dollface; Feb 11th 2014 at 11:58 am.
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 11:57 am
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by TGA View Post
Let them have independence.. Hopefully they will lose the chip on the shoulder.
In fact thay should move the boarder down to include liverpool then they can all mince around in shell suites feeling hard done by, by the English together.
and you wonder why some Scots dislike some English.......................
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
pretty good point above, if they went for it, we could set a deadline for all Scottish problems to cease being Englands fault, hmmmmm
Perhaps some of you nice English people should be thinking what will happen to England's economy if Scotland left the Union, rather than how crap you think the Scots will have it.
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 12:02 pm
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by dollface View Post
and you wonder why some Scots dislike some English.......................
In my experience the only venom has been directed at the English, not by us, the comment you quoted was light hearted
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 12:03 pm
  #129  
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by dollface View Post
Perhaps some of you nice English people should be thinking what will happen to England's economy if Scotland left the Union, rather than how crap you think the Scots will have it.
I'm not sure we'd notice
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 12:11 pm
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
I'm not sure we'd notice
Seriously?
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 12:13 pm
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
In my experience the only venom has been directed at the English, not by us, the comment you quoted was light hearted
Be honest, it's tit for tat. Neither side are kind to each other, but in my humble opinion it is the minority that are of that frame of mind. Some of my best friends are English, I don't hate them, I love them.
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 12:50 pm
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by TGA View Post
Let them have independence.. Hopefully they will lose the chip on the shoulder.
In fact thay should move the boarder down to include liverpool then they can all mince around in shell suites feeling hard done by, by the English together.
What a pleasant person you are!
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 1:47 pm
  #133  
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by dollface View Post
Perhaps some of you nice English people should be thinking what will happen to England's economy if Scotland left the Union, rather than how crap you think the Scots will have it.
I take it this is a serious question?

The answer, of course, is "not much." The economy of the "rest of the UK" is about ten times the size of Scotland's.

There would, naturally, be a bit of hole in the revenue bucket assuming Scotland negotiates well to retain the North Sea oil revenues. That amounted to around £6 billion in 2012-13. That's only one quarter of one percent of UK GDP; it's a much more significant chunk of Scotland's at roughly 2.5%.

However, it is generally acknowledged (even by Scots Nats) that Scotland will need to assume a chunk of the UK's public debt. While the requirement to service less debt will not be hugely significant for the rest of the country, it's not too far from balancing out the loss of North Sea revenues. Here, too, there's a more serious implication for Scotland, and one of the major holes in Salmond's economic position: it appears the oil revenue money has been counted twice - both to service the additional debt load and to build a soveriegn wealth fund. It can't do both.

How many corporations, especially international companies who received Westminster-funded tax incentives to locate European offices in Scotland, will move their Euro-HQs south of the border? Even if it's only a few, that will decrease Scotland's corporation tax take in favour of the rest of the UK. Will the rest-of-UK hand back to Scotland the enormous public investment in the Royal Bank and HBOS? That will lighten the Westminster government's (and the Bank of England's) obligations to provide bail-out services in the event of another financial disaster. A lot of financial structures will depend on the cost extracted by Westminster for Edinburgh's suggestion that the Bank of England will remain the lender-of-last-resort for Scottish financial institutions. That will not be a free service!

In the long term, I do not believe that the secession of Scotland will benefit the rest-of-UK. It will inevitably eventually lead to the ever greater concentration of political and economic power in London, to the detriment of the regions. Scotland's rhetorical might, if not its economic and political power, has helped to offset that in the past, whatever public opinion in Scotland might feel. That imbalance in the regional economies of the rest-of-UK will only hurt the country. But in the short term, I don't think the impact on the remaining nations in the Union will be significant.
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 2:25 pm
  #134  
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by TGA View Post
Let them have independence.. Hopefully they will lose the chip on the shoulder.
In fact thay should move the boarder down to include liverpool then they can all mince around in shell suites feeling hard done by, by the English together.
You do know that Liverpool is part of England, right? With this sort of attitude its not really a mystery that some Scousers feel somewhat alienated from the rest of the Country.
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Old Feb 11th 2014, 3:53 pm
  #135  
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Default Re: if the scots go, do you care?

Originally Posted by Oakvillian View Post
I take it this is a serious question?

The answer, of course, is "not much." The economy of the "rest of the UK" is about ten times the size of Scotland's.

There would, naturally, be a bit of hole in the revenue bucket assuming Scotland negotiates well to retain the North Sea oil revenues. That amounted to around £6 billion in 2012-13. That's only one quarter of one percent of UK GDP; it's a much more significant chunk of Scotland's at roughly 2.5%.

However, it is generally acknowledged (even by Scots Nats) that Scotland will need to assume a chunk of the UK's public debt. While the requirement to service less debt will not be hugely significant for the rest of the country, it's not too far from balancing out the loss of North Sea revenues. Here, too, there's a more serious implication for Scotland, and one of the major holes in Salmond's economic position: it appears the oil revenue money has been counted twice - both to service the additional debt load and to build a soveriegn wealth fund. It can't do both.

How many corporations, especially international companies who received Westminster-funded tax incentives to locate European offices in Scotland, will move their Euro-HQs south of the border? Even if it's only a few, that will decrease Scotland's corporation tax take in favour of the rest of the UK. Will the rest-of-UK hand back to Scotland the enormous public investment in the Royal Bank and HBOS? That will lighten the Westminster government's (and the Bank of England's) obligations to provide bail-out services in the event of another financial disaster. A lot of financial structures will depend on the cost extracted by Westminster for Edinburgh's suggestion that the Bank of England will remain the lender-of-last-resort for Scottish financial institutions. That will not be a free service!

In the long term, I do not believe that the secession of Scotland will benefit the rest-of-UK. It will inevitably eventually lead to the ever greater concentration of political and economic power in London, to the detriment of the regions. Scotland's rhetorical might, if not its economic and political power, has helped to offset that in the past, whatever public opinion in Scotland might feel. That imbalance in the regional economies of the rest-of-UK will only hurt the country. But in the short term, I don't think the impact on the remaining nations in the Union will be significant.
You make alot of good points .However there was an article in the FT just last week stating that if Scotland became independent its economy would be in a better state than UK.
On the oil ,yep would probably lose some if not all of the revenues paying the debt back but we are losing it at the moment anyway.Another "however",the reason the SNP want rid of Trident is to be able to start oil exploration on the west coast of Scotland which has since the 80s been blocked by the MOD.
The scaremongering of certain companies threatening to leave the "sinking ship" cant really see it happening not if the scottish goverment go ahead with their plan to reduce corp. tax. to encourage investment.
I think if both countries work together both will benefit.
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