MarkG

It's only fair, considering England was governed for years by a Labour party it didn't vote for, run by Scots who pretty much bankrupt the country.

neilcumming

If we get independence then you wont have to worry about who gets more?
Remember the tories are planning 25 billion pounds of spending cuts.

neilcumming

The DHSS is UK government ,if independent we would have control of that money and where its better spent.

Shard

Why is that the Norweigens are one of the healthiest nations in Europe and the Scots are not? Is it to do with control of the oil industry or the political party of the day?

The reason Greece et al are often referred to on topics of independence is that they are a good example of the kind powerlessness EU nations have to control their fiscal and monetary policy if things go wrong.

Scotland is being promised utopian conditions by a charlatan, whereas the reality is much different. It's important to examine the issues carefully rather than exaggerate the positive and shrug off the negative. So far, that doesn't seem to be happening.

iaink

So how would a Scottish government manage to pay to maintain those services?


The danger as I see it is that if Scotland wants to maintain services, its going to have to pay for them one way or another. In practice that means either higher income taxes, or higher corporation taxes, or both

Higher income taxes could lead to an exodus of the skilled workers that are generating income for companies, why stay in Scotland if you can take your transferable skills and work nearby with less taxation? Thats going to have an impact on the performance of the economy and the ability of the government to pay for services.

Higher corporation taxes will simply drive companies away, with an even more detrimental effect overall.

It could be this is all worst case doom and gloom, and based on the current opinion polls independence is a long way from likely to happen anyway, but people need to weigh up the consequences before voting. If the money isnt in the economy then it makes no sense to try and maintain services levels at all costs.

bats

Scots get all that extra money and are still unhealthy, why's that?

I would quite like Scotland to go, i csn't see it harming England etc, unless there's an influx of Scots looking for a better quality of life.

dbd33

My disagreement with the idea is not this but that, given the higher amounts already spent of health in Scotland, it's not probable that more government spending will alter the behaviour of the public. Not in our lifetimes anyway. I suppose there's an argument that the fresh air of freedom will induce a euphoria that will displace the fags, booze, drugs and deep fried Mars bars - I'd believe that before I'd believe a new government can raise taxes, spend well and make the public healthy.

iaink

If independence is solely about trying to improve life expectancy in Scotland I would say its a waste of time.

Any impact a government can make on public attitudes to healthier lifestyles I would think is fairly minimal. Its not like anyone out there doesnt already know about the dangers of cigarettes, alcohol, saturated fats etc, sedentary lifestyles etc is it?

Ive a psychologist friend whose specialty is influencing public attitudes to things like exercise and healthy foods. Its a very slow process, and somewhat soul destroying.

There is however a link between wealth and public health levels. Would independent nationhood improve the economic lot of the majority of scottish residents? Baring the unlikely creation of a state of minimal government influence that will attract international investment I cant see why it should.

Jingsamichty

I would add that the debate is not helped at all by the constant yahooo-ing of the braying idiots in England who persist with the "subsidy junkie" bullshit about Scotland. They're as unhelpful as the MacGlashan-style nationalists.

Yes, Scotland has it's problems, and yes, they have been largely overlooked by successive Westminster governments. But there is a Scottish government now, and the problems of health and education and economy should be being dealt with there. Unfortunately the SNP's referendum pledge is a cheap populist stunt which is simply distracting the Scottish government and people from addressing the real issues.

Scotland is best served by remaining in the UK with a much more powerful devolved government. You don't need to be independent to get the powers that the Scottish people deserve.

iaink

Presumably the subsidy issue simply reflects the fact that large parts of Scotland are economically depressed?

People will vote for independence if they think it will improve their future prospects and that of their children. The Scottish economy has not exactly been central to the thoughts and actions of the politicians in Westminster as the wealth of the nation in my lifetime has obviously gravitated to London and the SE.

Its hardly a surprise that there is a section of Scottish society that wants to give it a go on their own. How that would work in reality is what concerns me.

dbd33

I don't imagine it is, however that argument was presented and seemed ill-founded to me.

I would think the argument for independence in Scotland, independence anywhere, is about wanting the country to be run by people who are exclusively, or at least primarily, interested in that country. The UKIP wants out of the EU, the SNP wants out of the UK, some Canadians want out of NAFTA. I sympathise with a desire not to be crushed under the jackboot of Brussels, London, Washington. To stand alone, as Libya stands alone, is a romantic notion even if it does mean drawing your leaders from a smaller gene pool.

As Oakvillian points out, economically it makes no sense to be independent but some things are more important than financial well-being; this is about pride, being able to nut the entire world and tell it it's no on.

iaink

Economically depressed area, people living from cheque to cheque with nothing to look forward to in their old age, so why not just do what makes you feel good now, smoke, drink, enjoy the pleasures of a decent fry up, who would want to live to be 92 in East Kilbirde?

neilcumming

1 Scotland is not a region.

2 Not interested in Russia.
3 Your joking right
4 Hadrians wall was built to keep out the Picts not the Scots.

Shard

Well said.

andrewjohn

Get sick and tired of people who base their voting choice on Alex Salmond, you have a democratic right to vote for independence for your country and you base it on one individual, once independence is gained you can vote for who you want, Alex Salmond may not be in charge?

And Scotland does not need the UK, there is nothing United about it and putting the word great in front of britain does not make it extraordinary? Scotland is an extraordinary and great country and deserves its independence, just unfortunate people can't see what can lie ahead of them for crying about Alex Salmond??