neilcumming

Thats the usual response I get but I do believe Scotland will better off independent.Yes the article is very pro-YES but on the other hand what are the great propects of staying the union? More cuts to services on the way of 25 billion pounds ,billions wasted on replacing Trident which will never be used,more years of tory mis-mangement which Scotland never votes for.I dont see any rosy picture for staying in union,its pretty much the same old same.

Shard

Thanks for doing the heavy lifting for us. Despite the economic or political arguments against, there is strong emotional argument for, and it may well be that enough Scots vote with their hearts and that independence happens. Alex Salmond is master manipulator after all.

Oakvillian

This genuinely intrigues me. What is it that makes you believe Scotland would be better off independent? I mean really, rationally better off, not just "rid of those bloody Sassenachs" better off?

In case you hadn't noticed, the smaller, poorer economies around the periphery of the European Union haven't exactly been having a lovely time of it. I bet if you offered a Greek, an Italian or a Spaniard cuts of "only" 25 billion they'd leap at the chance. PIIGS becomes PIIGSS in a few years?

What is it, specifically, that has been mis-managed by one party which another has not, or would not, mis-manage equally badly? I don't seem to recall that it was all so much better under Blair or Brown for the dozen years up to 2010.

If staying in the union doesn't present a rosy picture, think of the potentially utterly disastrous consequences of leaving it. Too much of the promised "economic miracle" which will make Scotland a global powerhouse, is based upon seriously shaky assumptions about oil revenues and efficient government. A great deal of what Scotland enjoys today is, of course, of its own making - but it has sure as Hell been helped along by being tied to an economy ten times its size (how many times have there been complaints on this board about how Canadian consumers lose out in comparison with those in our 10-times-bigger southern neighbour? Distribution costs up due to lower population density, overheads spread over a smaller customer base, etc etc etc...).

I have never, yet, heard a pro-independence supporter provide a well reasoned argument in defence of their position. I'd love to read one which is supportable through more than an emotional appeal to nationalist instinct.

Jingsamichty

+1

bats

Has there been any discussion of what the immigration status would be for Scots living in England? Or English/Welsh or Norn Irish living in Scotland? I'm thinking probably the same for Republic of Ireland citzens in the UK, but what about in Scotland?

orly

I'd imagine everyone born beforehand carries on as normal. Anyone born after would be a Scottish citizen. The "by descent" laws would probably make a non-issue for many decades.

Oakvillian

Oh, and the Trident thing. You do realise, I suppose, that the decision to replace Trident was taken in principle under the Labour government in 2007? And that only parties such as the SNP and Plaid Cymru, who have no mandate for national defence and can therefore be as irresponsible as they want, whipped opposition to the bill in Parliament? And the entire programme is now being funded through the MoD's general expenditure, rather than a special procurement budget?

English shipyard workers in Barrow-in-Furness are, of course, delighted that the Trident replacement is likely to go ahead. The BAE yard there will very likely win the contract for the Vanguard-replacement submarines. If Scotland gains independence, the inhabitants of Helensburgh currently employed at Faslane will no doubt be looking for new jobs. That will probably also please the potential civilian employees of the Naval base at Plymouth Devonport, first in line to take up the slack.

burks

I'm not too fussed about whether or not they vote for independence. But if they do vote for it, independence should mean independence. No riding on the back of joint services/govt. departments like the DVLA etc. They can get their own!

London should also only include English/Welsh/NI MP's on issues that only affect England/Wales/NI.

ultrarunner

Errrr...cos Brussels isn't England, and they don't have bad teeth i.e. Limey

On a more serious note...Does that mean there will be heavy duty of IRN BRU then?

Shard

I don't understand why anyone British is "not fussed" about potential independence? It's one thing to accept that Scotland has a right to self determination, quite another to think that whatever they decide doesn't matter. Whether you have a connection with Scotland or not, if it separates that's a massive impact on both economies and political systems. Unless you have no interest in those topics at all (and for many expat Brits that would be understandable) then it's rather an important topic in the country's history.

neilcumming

Well for a start we wouldnt be governed by a tory government that we dont vote for ,only 1 tory MP in Scotland (zero at the '99 elections).The London parliament is broken,the politics dont work for Scotland,the results of the UK general elections are determined by the Midlands and S.England.So we can have a government with full powers that know what its people want ,may it be SNP or Labour and not a bunch of snooty Eton toffs that have absolutley nothing in common with Scotland.
Scotland has a wealth of resources but we must be the only oil producing country in the world and still have child poverty(1in 5),we have the worst health in Europe,heart disease,alcoholism(8th in the world)and the highest drug related deaths in Europe ,7 times higher.Glasgow has the highest mortalitly rate in UK 15% higher.I dont care about Greece or Spain or Itlay but I do care about Scotland and I know where those cuts are going to be aimed at and hit the hardest.So is it really "better together"?
As for if it can be economically sustainable ,you just need to look at Norway the 4th wealthiest country in the world per capita an almost identical oil producing country to Scotland .
Its nothing to do with anti-englishness or sassenachs,I lived and worked in England for 11yrs so you could say I have seen the 2 sides of the fence.

dbd33

Surely Scotland will still have the same people and they'll do the same things regardless of the governmental arrangements for the country, that's not the government's fault. How would independence help with any of these health or addiction issues?

bats

And yet the Scots ger more government money per capita for health than the English or Welsh

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/publ...aled-1-3197170

ultrarunner

It's besides the point...that's like saying how would independence help South Africa from Apartheid, or how did independence help all those 3rd world countries that got their independence from the GB

Novocastrian

So, a bit like any other deprived region then? Everything you think is anti-Scottish is really pro-SE-London.

Perhaps they should separate?


I'd suggest Russia beats Scotland in almost all of those categories.

I didn't know Scotland produced any oil: I thought it was all under the North Sea?


Fence? I think Hadrian's Wall is less of a hinderance than it used to be.