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HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Help, I just got fired
No, not me, I am past all that But every minute of every day someone somewhere has gotten the chop. Who knows, this could be your lucky day. It could be you! You have been with your firm many years, have gotten decent salary increases, and in the good years you even got a nice bonus. Your performance appraisals are exemplary and you have been told your long term career prospects are promising. In fact you are an asset to the company. Or so you are lead to believe. Well, to get to the point, one fine Friday afternoon your office phone rings. You hesitate to answer as you are getting ready to clock off, but you do. Some delightful young woman in the HR department requests your presence. You say OK but ‘can’t it wait until Monday morning’? ‘Afraid not’ is the reply. This sound ominous so you get off your butt and next thing you know you are in HR She does not waste any time. No small talk. You are presented a letter which essentially says your services are no longer needed and you are terminated forthwith. The reason given is downsizing, corporate reorganization, mumbo jumbo just like that. This 'personalized' letter is nothing more than the effort of their legal counsel and has no doubt been replicated over and over again. You are then told to go pack your stuff and when you return to your dept. you are greeted by two burly security people, equipped with boxes, they help you pack you stuff, you then return your keys or access pass, you are escorted to the street, you hail a cab, and off you are gone. Mercifully no one was around so at least you were spared the ordeal of explaining it all to your employees and co-workers. In the cab you have a plenty of time to think of how you are going to break the news to the family Monday morning comes soon enough. You are offered a severance deal, no negotiations, that is it, sign here, and your cheque will follow soon . All very cold blooded, very clinical. You are expected to say yes. DO NOT FALL IT You go through the yellow pages. You get yourself an appointment with a top notch labour lawyer. He or she will ask for the relevant documentation and a synopsis. So spend a few hours getting it ready. Make your visit as short and as efficiently as possible. Don’t be cheap. Spend a few hundred dollars. The lawyer will send out a polite and terse letter to the HR dept. HR do not like the prospect of protracted litigation. They do not want YOU to become THEIR problem. Guaranteed they will get back to you with a better offer. Do not accept it. Make them wait. Return and haggle some more. You will finally come to terms. Go phone the lawyer to get the green light. Once you settle do this: 1. If finances permit have the gross amount paid into an RRSP so taxes do not get taken off at that point 2. Go see the employment insurance people. Since you not at fault you will collect pronto 3. Get a glowing reference letter in writing. Write it yourself for the HR dept and tell them what you wrote you expect to see in writing from them. Make sure it says you were laid off through no fault of your own 4. You might be offered job counseling and help with your resume. Take it. 5. Do not see yourself as the victim. It was your job that vanished. you are still alive. 6. Do not badmouth your previous employer in subsequent interviews as the new company does not want to hear about it 7 There will be a confidentiality agreement you must sign once you settle so do not blab about it; after all you got a decent severance so be content and get on with your life. 8. Do not feel sorry for yourself. Life is unfair so get used to it. LAST BUT NOT LEAST PRINT THIS OUT AND KEEP IN A SAFE PLACE AS IT MIGHT COME IN HANDY SOMEDAY |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
:goodpost: I do so hope that this will be an irrelevant print out eventually used for scap, but thank you so much...it's not nice, but it's regretably life.
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Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Getting the chop can sometimes pay off. I once knew a chap who was nervous about being fired, so he went and found another job. He was about to hand in his resignation but this was his lucky day as the HR people called him, gave him the sad news, and he got a good settlement. I remember him as he came back to our area and he told us he was asked to leave. Only a few months later, once he got his money, did he tell us what actually happened. Had he handed in his notice he would not have been that lucky.
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Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
I question point no.2. I believe if you get a severance package those funds must be used up before collecting EI. eg, 24 months severance means waiting two years before applying for EI.
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Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by Auld Yin
(Post 10940037)
I question point no.2. I believe if you get a severance package those funds must be used up before collecting EI. eg, 24 months severance means waiting two years before applying for EI.
i should have thought of it |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
I work in HR and though not directly involved in laying someone off, I can tell you it is not a cold-blooded heartless process. Stomachs are churning, people hate having to do this and I've seen managers upset and grown men cry.
We offer a counselling service at the time of an abolishment or termination (I hate that word but it is used freely for any person who leaves), and the whole resume/financial planning service comes as standard. It costs a fortune. We are sensitive to all parties at all times, and if an abolishment is forthcoming, quite like the example above, the employee is invited to HR towards the end of the day, and in the meantime, a manager is quietly letting the rest of the department know. It's crushing. Several of our department have themselves been let go. One by our own company, but she came back four years later and has since been with us for a further 18 years. I honestly believe that the manner and style that this is done, completely sets the tone for the whole organization. Our severance packages are laid out in the original offer of employment, so there is likely no negotiation. Take the help you are offered - go home and lick your wounds - and try not to take it toooooo personally, though I think that is impossible to do. :unsure: On the up side, this could be a fantastic opportunity. :) |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by ann m
(Post 10940090)
We offer a counselling service at the time of an abolishment or termination (I hate that word but it is used freely for any person who leaves), and the whole resume/financial planning service comes as standard. It costs a fortune. We are sensitive to all parties at all times, and if an abolishment is forthcoming, quite like the example above, the employee is invited to HR towards the end of the day, and in the meantime, a manager is quietly letting the rest of the department know. |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Excellent post. Been there, done that unfortunately.
Only thing I would add is if you are confident that you can find another job, or already have a trusted careers advisor/ resume reader, you can turn their offer of external employment counseling into a further $ lump sum. |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 10940231)
What a term! How long has that been in use? If there is place for euphemisms surely this is it. Termination is factual, as is redundancy (though of course, British) laid-off is casual, but ABOLISHMENT! Presumably it's simply the role that has been abolished, and not the individual. But you can never be too sure. :unsure:
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Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by ann m
(Post 10940630)
Yes, the position has been abolished and is no longer needed.
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Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 10940636)
...until of course, the position is eventually created again. It's all a bit of corporate hoodwinking.
unless the job is sent offshore or contracted out domestically even in a reorganization the work moves elsewhere but the function remains |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by montreal mike
(Post 10940807)
I am always suspicious when i hear a position is being abolished then what was the person who had the position doing to begin with?
unless the job is sent offshore or contracted out domestically even in a reorganization the work moves elsewhere but the function remains Very occasionally (maybe) they just want to get rid of a problem employee. The unions ensure that position is not advertised or recreated within the next 6 months. |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by ann m
(Post 10940954)
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. We might abolish an instructor position because a course has been changed or no students, or other positions because the work has changed and/ or been distributed to other people or departments. Jobs and technologies change over time too. We abolished a mail room position last year, for example, as that work literally did not exist anymore. The volume fell by over a third in 5 years.
Very occasionally (maybe) they just want to get rid of a problem employee. The unions ensure that position is not advertised or recreated within the next 6 months. |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
One of the reasons, among many, why older workers -- those in the mid-fifty age bracket -- suddenly get the chop, is the poorly funded company pension plan.
I have been told by an actuary that companies do not always put away reserves to provide for future payouts for all workers. In some respects this logical because who the hell sticks around for 40 years?. However for those loyal older workers who have been around for 20 plus years, and who are not inclined to change jobs, or simply can not, they might naively look forward to a comfortable retirement age 65. But this means an added corporate financial burden down the road. So why not simply eliminate them from the payroll and be done with it? And many such pension plans are poorly funded to begin with. Secondly, in a non-union environment, why hang on to a high priced older person when a young cheaper tiger can fill the bill? lt is a fallacy to assume companies will always value older experienced loyal workers. Not so. What prevails above all is the bottom line via trimmed down corporate budgets. These matters get resolved at the annual board of directors get-togethers where budgets are voted upon, without undue concern for the human impact. Isn't capitalism great? :) |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by iaink
(Post 10940265)
Excellent post. Been there, done that unfortunately.
Only thing I would add is if you are confident that you can find another job, or already have a trusted careers advisor/ resume reader, you can turn their offer of external employment counseling into a further $ lump sum. But some companies will offer outside counseling, take it or leave it. The reason is purely legal. So in the event things turn out nasty in future the company can claim it bent over backwards to help a dismissed employee through a painful and difficult transition period. But for someone who just got the chop and who has little use for these outfits and who is articulate enough to put together a half-decent resume, it is worth a try. |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
So pray tell, when might I be vulnerable?
Simple: Between Christmas and Dec 31 The new budgets usually go into effect in January, thus the indecent haste to dump excess baggage. I remember a case where this guy got his Christmas gift rather early. He got the letter saying he was persona-non-grata just as he was leaving to go home after a company Christmas party. Santa Claus simply showed up early for him;) |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
http://www.getsmarteraboutmoney.ca/e...x#.UljzCjBBlYA
For those of you who have blind faith in their company's pension plan, here is a real eye opener 5 minutes of your time well spent to watch Of course, if you are in government employ, at whatever level, you don't have a care in the world |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by montreal mike
(Post 10941060)
http://www.getsmarteraboutmoney.ca/e...x#.UljzCjBBlYA
For those of you who have blind faith in their company's pension plan, here is a real eye opener 5 minutes of your time well spent to watch Of course, if you are in government employ, at whatever level, you don't have a care in the world True we have a certain degree of more protection than others but we can still get laid off. |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
(Post 10941241)
I tend to think the 19,000 Govt workers who got laid off in the last round of cuts might disagree with your last sentence even with being a union member;)
True we have a certain degree of more protection than others but we can still get laid off. Who cares? It is funded by taxpayers at large I was not talking about job security |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by montreal mike
(Post 10941015)
One of the reasons, among many, why older workers -- those in the mid-fifty age bracket -- suddenly get the chop, is the poorly funded company pension plan.
I have been told by an actuary that companies do not always put away reserves to provide for future payouts for all workers. In some respects this logical because who the hell sticks around for 40 years?. However for those loyal older workers who have been around for 20 plus years, and who are not inclined to change jobs, or simply can not, they might naively look forward to a comfortable retirement age 65. But this means an added corporate financial burden down the road. So why not simply eliminate them from the payroll and be done with it? And many such pension plans are poorly funded to begin with. Secondly, in a non-union environment, why hang on to a high priced older person when a young cheaper tiger can fill the bill? lt is a fallacy to assume companies will always value older experienced loyal workers. Not so. What prevails above all is the bottom line via trimmed down corporate budgets. These matters get resolved at the annual board of directors get-togethers where budgets are voted upon, without undue concern for the human impact. Isn't capitalism great? :) Fact is that none of us has a job for life and being made redundant is something many of us will have to face. Possibly more than once. It happened to me exactly a year after I started my first job in Canada and was, at the time a devastating experience. And I got treated relatively well - 3 months payout, outplacement services etc. Hindsight and subsequent research indicates that I probably could have got more and would I would certainly be better prepared if it happened to me again. An evening in the bar in the US with our HR Director recently was useful in that regard. ;) |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat
(Post 10941854)
There is some genuinely useful advice in your earlier posts but you getting a bit ranty-chip-on-your-shoulder now. Of course evil corporations will let expensive older workers go. So do evil government beaucracies, both here and in the UK. No new news here surely? The majority of private sector employees here, I imagine, don't have a corporate pension plan but rather, have a RRSP. Sure, the employers contributions to the RRSP are more for the better paid, but there isn't neccessarily a direct link between pay and age, nor is there I think a terribly large incentive for the evil corporation to terminate the mature employee just to reduce the 3-7% the pay into the RRSP.
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Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat
(Post 10941854)
There is some genuinely useful advice in your earlier posts but you getting a bit ranty-chip-on-your-shoulder now. Of course evil corporations will let expensive older workers go. So do evil government beaucracies, both here and in the UK. No new news here surely? The majority of private sector employees here, I imagine, don't have a corporate pension plan but rather, have a RRSP. Sure, the employers contributions to the RRSP are more for the better paid, but there isn't neccessarily a direct link between pay and age, nor is there I think a terribly large incentive for the evil corporation to terminate the mature employee just to reduce the 3-7% the pay into the RRSP.
Surely expensive older workers are vulnerable as they can be replaced with younger cheaper ones but that is not the real issue here. The saving of 3-7% on pay to go to an RRSP is the minor consideration. Point is that company pensions are poorly funded. One would expect that reserves would be put aside during a certain periods of a worker's employment and not doing so is sometimes justified as some workers will be gone anyways within 10 - 15 years, for example. But what of the others who stay on expecting to be there until normal retirement? For some over age 50 the company will need to put aside significant reserves, in effect playing 'catch up', so an economic calculation is made and it can be that dispensing a years worth of severance will, in the long run, turn out to be far far cheaper. And corporations are not by definition evil, but they may need to be somewhat ruthless as their concern is for their shareholders and thus they are not duly concerned for their workforce. I can't say I blame them. Please re-read my original post number 14. And if this comes across as a rant it is only because I am trying to get a very important point across regarding poorly funded pensions cost and liabilities. Judging by your comment I must have failed to do so. |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
The whole retirement system needs a major overhaul.
I highly recommend "Pound Foolish" by Helaine Olen. It's about the US retirement crisis but a fair bit of it applies to Canada as well. |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/...nsion_plan.asp
maybe this link will help get my point across this concept is not generally understood by the public at large but it can have serious consequences |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by montreal mike
(Post 10939577)
She does not waste any time. No small talk. You are presented a letter which essentially says your services are no longer needed and you are terminated forthwith. The reason given is downsizing, corporate reorganization, mumbo jumbo just like that. This 'personalized' letter is nothing more than the effort of their legal counsel and has no doubt been replicated over and over again.
You are then told to go pack your stuff and when you return to your dept. you are greeted by two burly security people, equipped with boxes, they help you pack you stuff, you then return your keys or access pass, you are escorted to the street, you hail a cab, and off you are gone. Mercifully no one was around so at least you were spared the ordeal of explaining it all to your employees and co-workers. Being fired and being laid off aren't necessarily the same thing, but anyway there are specific legal standards that have to be met to terminate someone's employment. In Alberta: Options for employer to terminate employment Section 55 (1) Unless subsection (2) applies, an employer may terminate the employment of an employee only by giving the employee (a) a termination notice under section 56, (b) termination pay under section 57(1), or (c) a combination of termination notice and termination pay under section 57(2). (2) Termination notice is not required (a) to terminate the employment of an employee for just cause, (b) when an employee has been employed by the employer for 3 months or less, (c) when the employee is employed for a definite term or task for a period not exceeding 12 months on completion of which the employment terminates, (d) when the employee is laid off after refusing an offer by the employer of reasonable alternative work, (e) if the employee refuses work made available through a seniority system, (f) if the employee is not provided with work by the employer by reason of a strike or lockout occurring at the employee’s place of employment, (g) when the employee is employed under an agreement by which the employee may elect either to work or not to work for a temporary period when requested to work by the employer, (h) if the contract of employment is or has become impossible for the employer to perform by reason of unforeseeable or unpreventable causes beyond the control of the employer, (i) if the employee is employed on a seasonal basis and on the completion of the season the employee’s employment is terminated, or (j) when employment ends in the circumstances described in sections 62 to 64. Employer’s termination notice Section 56 To terminate employment an employer must give an employee written termination notice of at least (a) one week, if the employee has been employed by the employer for more than 3 months but less than 2 years, (b) 2 weeks, if the employee has been employed by the employer for 2 years or more but less than 4 years, (c) 4 weeks, if the employee has been employed by the employer for 4 years or more but less than 6 years, (d) 5 weeks, if the employee has been employed by the employer for 6 years or more but less than 8 years, (e) 6 weeks, if the employee has been employed by the employer for 8 years or more but less than 10 years, or (f) 8 weeks, if the employee has been employed by the employer for 10 years or more. Termination pay Section 57 (1) Instead of giving a termination notice, an employer may pay an employee termination pay of an amount at least equal to the wages the employee would have earned if the employee had worked the regular hours of work for the applicable termination notice period. (2) An employer may give an employee a combination of termination pay and termination notice, in which case the termination pay must be at least equal to the wages the employee would have earned for the applicable termination notice period that is not covered by the notice. (3) If the wages of an employee vary from one pay period to another, the average of the employee’s wages for the 3-month period immediately preceding the date of termination of employment is to be used to determine the employee’s termination pay. |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by ExKiwilass
(Post 10941986)
The whole retirement system needs a major overhaul.
If they were to raise CPP contributions (which is likely to happen, the provinces are trying to come to an agreement now) then it wouldn't help for retirees for decades. And the baby boomers are retiring now. The US on the other hand did make reforms to Social Security back in 1986. |
Re: HELP ... I JUST GOT FIRED
Originally Posted by Steve_
(Post 10942944)
It's unlikely you would get terminated in that manner.
The business of being escorted off the premises should not come as a shock All the paperwork, stuff to be signed, severance pay negotiation, RRSP details and so on and so forth, all that can wait. It all follows in due course As for termination notice, that is not an issue as it is paid later on in addition to severance. A company is not obliged to keep a person, who is 'persona non grata', on its premises, if it chooses not to. |
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