Gozit

See title

Has the pandemic response in Canada/Ontario specifically made you think twice about moving back to the UK or Europe where vaccinations are increasing and life is returning to normal at a much quicker pace then we are?

I'm going to Malta to visit and there is a strong pull that is keeping me from boarding the plane back to Canada. I'll be fully vaccinated there, as are most of the adult population, and all activities and events will be back to normal by the end of the year. It's looking like a pretty good life could be had there, vs. waiting here for endless restrictions to end.

The pull of my family keeps me here, but other then that I don't have many reasons for staying.

Former Lancastrian

No. In the UK I lived 9 miles from Bolton & Blackburn. Try googling how those 2 towns are dealing with Covid and these are 2 towns in the UK.

scilly

No way, Jose!

We have been much better treated, and safer than in Europe.

If you look back, Canada reacted faster in shut down procedures than the UK and most European countries. Where we fell down was in getting the vaccines from manufacturer to Canada and into bodies. But that was because we had no vaccine facilities capable of making the vaccine and no connections. We had to rely on producers in other countries to be able to fulfil their promised supplies.

I also lived, and would probably also be living in two of the currently very bad areas in the UK.

CanadaJimmy

I think Canada and the UK are both fairly individualistic nations, so both countries struggle to think collectively about preventing a virus spreading, it's just not really in the culture. The UK being more densely populated didn't help, just like how we saw worse outcomes in the older more denser parts of Canada. In terms of vaccinations, Canada was held back because there was no domestic manufacturing, so I don't think it's really fair to hold that against the country. Now we're getting the vaccines shipped in the rollout is actually going quite well.

Atlantic Xpat

"Has the pandemic response in Canada/Ontario".....So this is an Ontario question then? In reality the only beef you have with the federal government is closing the international borders/travel restrictions. It's inconvenient for you because you want to go to Malta. I get that. I'd like to see my relatives and colleagues in the UK but I accept that's not possible at present. You do come across as a *little* self entitled at times...

The pandemic response in Newfoundland and Canada doesn't want to make me move. We've had things considerable easier here than with rest of Canada or the UK. I suppose if I were in the UK I'dve been vaccinated a month or so ago rather than yesterday. I would have spent far more time in lockdown in a smaller house climbing the walls so as I say, I'll stick with Newfoundland/Canada thanks.

JamesM

I voted "Yes".

It's not the pandemic response in isolation but more it highlight's the failed state of Canada and the inability of 3 tiers of government to co-ordinate effectively to give the people they serve adequate solutions for health, mental health and payment of bills. Other failures involve the lack of new transit built in Toronto in the last decade, countless corruption scandals involving Justin Trudeau and the fact that the broader public sector here is simply too broad and overpaid whilst seemingly light on deliverables.

Covid further bought it to the fore and has made me pay more attention to how hopeless it is for 14 months.

JamesM

You've been talking about going to live there for years. It sounds like it's time for you to give it a go.

I think the pandemic will be over across the western world by the end of the year- sadly Africa, South America and India will be waiting until the hoarding from the "developed" nations is over.

JamesM

Give the young lad a break- it's a worthwhile Maple Leaf discussion and like all young men he's desperate to spring from the nest and has clearly been frustrated for many months by the pandemic.

Gozit

Yep I can see that point.

Malta shut down very early, shut down airports and seaports from March 2020-July 2020. No one in or out unless on a government authorised flight. Then Jul 2020 things opened up, only negative PCR needed coming from Canada. Had I not been working full time I would have went last summer as well. However they opened up too far, and things got out of control, resulting in an Oct-Dec lockdown with a reopening between Dec-Mar, followed by a 1 month lockdown Mar-Apr, now most of the population is vaccinated, minimal cases and most things barring large crowded events (understandable) are allowed. Masks are still required in and outdoors until 1 July, when vaccinated people will be able to remove masks outdoors when with 1 other vaccinated person. I suspect by then they will have an idea of when they will stop requiring masks outdoors at all, but for the forseeable future they will be needed indoors, which I agree with. I think if you are going to allow tourism you need to keep the masks and distancing a little strict.

By and large I would rather have been over there for the duration of the pandemic vs. here.

Agreed. However I am envious of the UK's reopening plan, Canada/Ontario seems to be less coordinated then that, and while the rollout is going well, it is still much slower then the vaccination rate in the UK and Malta. We've only just recently surpassed the US but previous to now they were doing much better.

Yes, for me it is an Ontario question. I can't really speak to Nfld as i've never even been there or know anyone who lives there. Yes, the international travel restrictions are incredibly inconvenient and not science-based, especially for fully vaccinated travelers such as myself. The EU and US are relaxing guidelines for fully vaccinated people, I would like to know when Canada will do the same. Right now it seems like "never." (Obviously it will happen, the government just refuses to give an accurate picture of when, and how that will happen.)

One of my biggest frustrations has been the lack of transparency and lack of communication in the federal government response. The provincial government, whilst haphazard, has at least put forward a reopening plan or framework at each stage/ "wave" of the pandemic. The federal government has not, and will not be transparent with the public on exactly when and how restrictions will be lifted, and what criteria need to be met in order for it to happen.

However I wouldn't say it is just travel restrictions that are prompting this discussion. That is probably 60% of the issue. The other 40% is that, I will be able to get a haircut, go to the gym, go to a restaurant for indoor and outdoor dining, etc. Aka, have a life and go back to normal. (With masks and distancing still enforced which as above I agree with.)

I'm not advocating throwing caution to the wind, I just think our response, as with most Canadian responses to international events, is too cautious, and too pessimistic.

Gozit

+1

This is the gyst of my problem with the pandemic, other then the international travel restrictions that just seem to be based on punishing people who choose to travel rather then be based on science.

Danny B

Hell NO.

Pandemic wise, I am much better off living in small town BC. I got vaccinated a few weeks ago and am very happy with how it all went.

Atlantic Xpat

Isn't a different take on international travel: "We wanted to keep the borders with the US closed as, jeez, have you seen what's been going on down there? If we close all borders then it doesn't look like we're singling out the US. That was pretty important when the orange one was president as he'd doubtless have taken offence." I'd agree a more reasoned approach is probably overdue but it's difficult to divorce "international travel" from "crossborder" travel in Canadias minds.

BristolUK

That may be a reason to want to leave Canada but the present day UK would not be the country to better those things.
As compared to the squeaky clean, scrupulously honest British PM and his corrupt colleagues with all the cronyism and dodgy contracts going on.

scilly

Many of us do tend to forget that Canada is a Federation of Provinces, just as the US is a Federation of States, and Australia is a Federation of States.

What that means is that the Federal Government can only make decisions on certain things, such as defense, international borders, etc. Thus the Feds could order International borders to be closed, but not the boundaries between provinces, while the provinces could order provincial boundaries closed but not International land, sea or air.

Trudeau probably should have closed the international borders to more passengers, but cargo planes, trucks etc were still needed to bring supplies in. How else would PPEs and vaccines have got here?

In matters of health, welfare, social services, etc, the Federal Government can suggest, can transfer money, etc, but cannot order a province to do this or that.

In many cases, the Premier of a Province has made wrong decision, while other Premiers have been more on the ball.

In my eyes, Ford dropped the ball early on, so did the Premier of Quebec. The Premier of Alberta was slow, but did have problems with his own cabinet, some of whom did not want any crack downs.

The Premiers of the 4 Maritime provinces were on the ball, their only real failure is happening now, with NS's wave of covid cases and lockdown resulting from a visit by some Ontarians who did not quarantine (against orders), socialised with friends for NS, cleared off home, and left a "present" of the covid virus behind. I'm not sure what has caused Newfoundland's current outbreak.

I think Horgan, the Premier of BC, did a good job last year along with his Health Officer, vaccination rates were slow because of failure of vaccines to arrive the country, but he' still on the ball, and the road map introduced today looks good as long a speople obey the restrictions that are still in place as we move forward.

It is the federation of provinces and the range of beliefs expressed by the Premiers and their cabinets that have resulted in the differences.

The UK is actually 3 separate entities ..... England and Wales, Boris can order everyone in those 2 countries to lockdown or whatever; Scotland, where Sturgeon reigns supreme; and Northern Ireland, which again has its own rules.

Malta, I presume has one head (Prime Minister, President??) who can order the whole island to do this or that.

One does need to look at the legal and political separations in and between countries. There is no quick and easy comparison to be made.

jackinthetree

I think BC's response is quite incompetent. They were left with a lucky streak the first time and sat on it complacently.

Also: The First "Luck" and Bonnie Henry writing her book and getting all sorts of accolades was a joke anyway. BC refused to test patients for months, that is the only reason their stats were so low. This is when I realized how incompetent the press is here as well.