jerryhung

The fact that you think this shows how out of touch and misogynistic you are - do you have women in your life, and if you have daughters, I feel for them.

Also, if you had read (as you have but failed to comprehend), the power of Weinstein includes retribution, destroying peoples' careers/reputations, physical power, as well as being highly influential and predatory.

Complicit? YOU also exist in this "society" - Hollywood is a microcosm. It is men and people like YOU who make it harder for people like the interviewed to break free from those issues.

Anyway, why am I even talking to you? You've just demonstrated you have a distinct case of head over heart, and a distinct lack of empathy and understanding of womens' feelings or circumstances.

YOU are a part of the complicitness in society that allows for issues like this.

If you were Ben Affleck, I can imagine your reaction would have been "So what? It happens in this town! Get over it"

jerryhung

That is exactly what men like Weinstein rely on - and were banking on.

Not to mention he widely controlled many journalists, in addition to being clearly vindictive and influential in the industry.

Thanks Oakvillian, for your perspectives.

jerryhung

I'm respectful of "innocent until proven guilty". I'm also respectful of this scenario.

I'm also cognizant of the dozens of credible accounts coming forward, and we should recognize here that this is not a single accuser. This includes women like Angelina Jolie, Gwyneth Paltrow, recorded voice footage from a NY SVU crime unit sting operation on Harvey, and many many others.

Women have a lot to lose by "coming out" - most aptly demonstrated by responses (mainly male as we can see) from the likes of Shard and Jings (??), who discredit/belittle/play down actual sexual assault and coercion. There is a lot of shame and embarrassment in these scenarios and that is what small men like this prey on.

The other factor is his legal team and considerable wealth was very hard to go up against - and his non-disclosure agreements were water tight.

BTW, since you mention it, OJ was found not guilty in a court of law. As a lawyer you should recognize the gross fallibility of that context - he may have been freed in the legal system for the murder of his ex-wife and friend, but he has more things coming than that. Incidentally, he wrote a book about that - i.e. how he would have killed them "if he had done it". I believe Rupert Murdoch was going to publish it but withdrew it after public criticism.

Jingsamichty

Out of order, sunshine. Nowhere I have I defended sexual assault.

This is very different to cases like Jimmy Savile, where his victims were universally incapable of giving consent, they were children.

People like Weinstein are nasty and manipulative, but being nasty and manipulative isn't a crime... just ask any lawyer. (Sorry AC ) No doubt Weinstein is a loathsome creep, but he wouldn't have got away with it for so long if there weren't some element of co-dependence here. Weinstein was able to manipulate girls precisely because he WAS able to "help" some of them in some ways that they thought they wanted at the time.

I've never had to give a blowjob to get hired, thankfully. But I find it hard to believe that most of those girls didn't understand that they actually, really had a choice.

jerryhung

OK sorry if I mischaracterized your post, Jing

Read the New Yorker article - it becomes clearer IMO.
If you still disagree then, then we have a problem.

Incidentally, I think that what is lacking from this particular perspective (IMO) is that you don't get a sense of the vulnerability/fear/shame of these women.

In small companies even, I've seen assault and what happens when the HR system is not helpful and how an assault victim is victimized/small/scared.

People don't always have the context and vantage point of someone on the outside, particularly younger women. This is the bulk of his prey it seems.

FWIW.

MarkG

Basically, there are thousands of actors looking for every part that's available, so the producers have a huge amount of power in choosing who gets to become a star. When I worked in movies in the UK, there was a pretty widespread opinion that most men who went into producing did it so they could shag a better class of women/men/goats than they were used to.

All that power goes to some people's heads.

Jingsamichty

Again, I am not discrediting/belittling or playing down 'sexual assault'.

Interestingly, why is it only when successful actors like Angelina Jolie speak out that it gets taken seriously? Why do we give more credence to people in positions of strength? That is precisely why Weinstein and his ilk get away with despicable (perhaps criminal, I don't know yet) behaviour, because we as a society are generally a bit starstruck.

MarkG

Yes. There are plenty of--maybe true, maybe not--stories of less-well-known actors having breakdowns or killing themselves because of what they had to do to get their parts. But few people cared about them.

Heck, it's been happening for decades: look at the stories about The Wizard Of Oz, for example. Or the stories about Shirley Temple, who fortunately had a mother who looked after her, rather than one who told her to do whatever it took to get the part.

Shard

I'm not saying they all do that, it's ok. I'm saying there are risks in every field and individuals need to take responsibility for their own actions. Obviously, that doesn't extend to being physically attacked, but where no crime has taken place, there are arguments that can be made on consent.

Yes, absolutely, actress should have quit and gone to the police. Financial loss is part of life. If more women had done that, the situation would not have endured quite so long. Fortunately, some are starting to do that now.

I also hope that he will be prosecuted and punished if guilty. Just because I can take a detached view of matters does not mean I condone them.

bats

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/cara-delevingne-harvey-weinstein-sexual-harassment-1202587272/

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/harvey-weinstein-what-you-need-to-know-w508162
Two more links with content that should help some understand why people are coerced into sexual acts

Almost Canadian

In a criminal case the assailants' legal team is the State. NDA will not protect him in a criminal trial.

If you don't like how the criminal legal system works, what you do propose as an alternative, guilt by Twitter?

The issue I have with "dozens of credible accounts" is that that is what the media says until the matter comes to trial. When the accounts are then demonstrated to be nothing like as clear cut as they had reported, the journalists then turn upon the lawyers and blame them for "twisting" things.

If he did this, I have no issue with him receiving exactly what he deserves. Unlike some, I will leave it for others to determine his guilt. Those that have read all the evidence, listened to the witnesses and who have found the facts.

sharkus

I've read a few things about this, but haven't seen anything mentioning why it's all suddenly coming up right now.

MarkG

The SJWs seem to have turned against Hollywood in the last year or so. It may just be part of that campaign.

Which isn't a bad thing: if one tenth of the stories I've heard are true, it's a cesspit of debauchery and abuse.

Shard

I think the NYT finally had the 'ahem' to publish allegations. C4 News just had an ex-NYT journo on who had a similar scoop 13 years ago, but said that the article was buried. Such was the power Weinstein had. Also, the recent Fox News sexual assault firings have empowered some of Weinstein's victims to come forward.

bats

Try this from Popbitch
http://popbitch.com/2017/10/inches-for-inches/