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GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Old May 18th 2022, 10:03 am
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
Yes, that would make sense. And in YUL and the other international airports they don't have that problem at all? like keeping planes for hours on the tarmac? or endless queues at immigration? It's really only YYZ?
I mean I have never been to YUL to verify but it is only YYZ that's all over the news.
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Old May 18th 2022, 10:15 am
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Originally Posted by Gozit View Post
I mean I have never been to YUL to verify but it is only YYZ that's all over the news.
So, I've read as well. Nothing on YUL or the other airports.

Just wondering how this plays out in real life in YYZ? If one is transferring via YYZ, would they then let passengers with connecting flights to disembark sooner? Or would they be able to jump the CBSA queue?
I mean, it can't be that every passenger connecting to another flight at YYZ is missing his / her flight just because of these issues?

Last edited by OrangeMango; May 18th 2022 at 10:43 am.
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Old May 18th 2022, 11:14 am
  #18  
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

I'm shortly booking travel to UK so this thread is of interest. I'm going to fly via Halifax on the way back - shorter flights, smaller airport, if I miss the connection I've got friends living nearby - but outbound I probably need to travel via YYZ or YUL as for some reason the Halifax flight is now a daytime flight rather than overnight which is less convenient. Are the Pearson issues to do with immigration and airport security primarily? Flying outbound domestic to international should avoid those I think. Anyone done that lately?
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Old May 18th 2022, 11:54 am
  #19  
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Some on here will know that I work for a certain Federal Govt Agency and used to work at an International Airport. Dependent on time of day travelling either domestically or internationally at the moment is a PITA.
Customs/CBSA have nothing to do with domestic flights in Canada full stop. They only deal with arriving international passengers or those transiting Canada for onward flights.

Multiple airports are reporting extremely long lines at airport security and border screening checkpoints while passengers say they are being forced to wait for hours -- and sometimes missing their flights.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/flight...ster-1.5898406


Travellers are expressing frustration and outrage after lengthy waits at Vancouver International Airport (YVR) resulted in delayed or missed flights.

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/t...ty-yvr-5322531
As COVID-19 travel restrictions continue to ease, passengers with flights departing from Vancouver International Airport are being asked to arrive hours ahead of their scheduled flights.

Joni Low said she arrived 90 minutes before her scheduled flight to Saskatoon earlier this week, only to miss it by minutes because of a long delay at the passenger security screening gate.

"I must have missed my 9:05 a.m. flight by probably two minutes because of these extraordinarily and unnecessarily long security lineups," Low told CBC News.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...lays-1.6436560

Take from these what you will and it is not just Pearson where delays are causing problems.
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Old May 18th 2022, 12:52 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Some on here will know that I work for a certain Federal Govt Agency and used to work at an International Airport. Dependent on time of day travelling either domestically or internationally at the moment is a PITA.
Customs/CBSA have nothing to do with domestic flights in Canada full stop. They only deal with arriving international passengers or those transiting Canada for onward flights.

Multiple airports are reporting extremely long lines at airport security and border screening checkpoints while passengers say they are being forced to wait for hours -- and sometimes missing their flights.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/flight...ster-1.5898406


Travellers are expressing frustration and outrage after lengthy waits at Vancouver International Airport (YVR) resulted in delayed or missed flights.

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/t...ty-yvr-5322531
As COVID-19 travel restrictions continue to ease, passengers with flights departing from Vancouver International Airport are being asked to arrive hours ahead of their scheduled flights.

Joni Low said she arrived 90 minutes before her scheduled flight to Saskatoon earlier this week, only to miss it by minutes because of a long delay at the passenger security screening gate.

"I must have missed my 9:05 a.m. flight by probably two minutes because of these extraordinarily and unnecessarily long security lineups," Low told CBC News.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...lays-1.6436560

Take from these what you will and it is not just Pearson where delays are causing problems.

Since you work in the industry, I have a couple of questions for you:

Do you think these issues are more happening on certain days of the week, or more at weekends?

Are they more in the morning or in the afternoon, evening?

Is the sole cause only checking the ArriveCAN and vaccination docs?

Or is it only staff shortage?

Also, there is the question, as to why Canada never introduced e-gates the same as Heathrow does?

These Canadian self service terminals only seem to do "half of the job", as even after one checks these documents in the self service terminals, one still proceeds to see a CBSA officer. At Heathrow, this is really an e-gate, where, after scanning in the passport, the gate opens, and one rarely sees an immigration officer, - probably only if someting isn't in order......
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Old May 18th 2022, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
Since you work in the industry, I have a couple of questions for you:

Do you think these issues are more happening on certain days of the week, or more at weekends? From all accounts they can happen anytime or any day of the week.

Are they more in the morning or in the afternoon, evening? Early morning can be bad at times and dependent on which airport you use evenings can be just as bad and Pearson closes down for about 4-5 hours after midnight.

Is the sole cause only checking the ArriveCAN and vaccination docs? Well it doesn't help when some airports have several thousand all arriving at the same time.

Or is it only staff shortage? CATSA (Security for Domestic and International) are certainly experiencing staff shortages.

Also, there is the question, as to why Canada never introduced e-gates the same as Heathrow does? ​​​​​​​That's a question for the Transport Minister. Canadian airports rely on self serve kiosks to clear passengers and the odd live human CBSA officer.

These Canadian self service terminals only seem to do "half of the job", as even after one checks these documents in the self service terminals, one still proceeds to see a CBSA officer. At Heathrow, this is really an e-gate, where, after scanning in the passport, the gate opens, and one rarely sees an immigration officer, - probably only if someting isn't in order......
Passenger arrives off a flight and I have no idea how many bags they have. Passenger declares they have only been absent for 3 days but has 6 x check in suitcases so ya think I might want them checked out?
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Old May 18th 2022, 1:17 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Passenger arrives off a flight and I have no idea how many bags they have. Passenger declares they have only been absent for 3 days but has 6 x check in suitcases so ya think I might want them checked out?
Well, it's certainly odd.in such a scenario. But if one wants to deceive customs for whatever reason, they'd probably send the suitcase with some other company, like "send my bag" or so. in hopes that they are not examined further....

But that's not the point of the discussion.

The discussion is, how to make it through the airport faster and smoother, not having endless wait times and missing connection flights.

Heathrow can handle it, so why can't they in Canada?

I think Canadian law makers never understood the practicalities. The longer one is in an queue, the higher the risk of a Covid infection, - and that's what they want or we all want to avoid. What's the point in checking vaccine certificates? It's probably a very difficult discussion to have with some people in Canada.....

Last edited by OrangeMango; May 18th 2022 at 1:20 pm.
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Old May 18th 2022, 1:33 pm
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Because Canada is not the UK. I seem to recall though it could be fake news from the UK Daily Rags that passengers have been facing horrendous line ups at Heathrow, Manchester, Birmingham etc etc so are you sure UK airports can handle it?

I have no intention of using any airport within the next 12 months so hopefully when I decide to fly then things might be better or worse.

My mum lives 435 miles (700 kms) from me. I can either choose a 7.5 hour drive or fly. Pre Covid it was a 1 hour 15 minute direct flight. Now I have to go via another airport as no more direct flights so now it is a 2 hour 25 minute flight for a connecting flight that is 2 hours. Total distance flying is almost 1500 miles. Guess which way I am choosing to visit her next weekend.
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Old May 18th 2022, 2:20 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Because Canada is not the UK. I seem to recall though it could be fake news from the UK Daily Rags that passengers have been facing horrendous line ups at Heathrow, Manchester, Birmingham etc etc so are you sure UK airports can handle it?

I have no intention of using any airport within the next 12 months so hopefully when I decide to fly then things might be better or worse.

My mum lives 435 miles (700 kms) from me. I can either choose a 7.5 hour drive or fly. Pre Covid it was a 1 hour 15 minute direct flight. Now I have to go via another airport as no more direct flights so now it is a 2 hour 25 minute flight for a connecting flight that is 2 hours. Total distance flying is almost 1500 miles. Guess which way I am choosing to visit her next weekend.
As written, I recently passed through Heathrow, and also had friends passing through Heathrow, none reported problems. However I think there were "YYZ-like" problems, in the early stages when they've lifted the testing requirement.

In the end, Canada has to realize that these kind of issues at Canadian airports for international arrivals cannot go on like this forever. These long delays, queues and endless checks of vaccine passports also will never ever keep the virus out, it will only be an accelerator for the virus to spread in large crowds at airports.

Let's hope Canadian lawmakers finally wake up.

And then there is also the tourism sector in Canada to recover. We can't expect for tourists to endure this kind of treatment if we want the tourism sector to grow and be welcoming to visitors, no matter if they come for business or pleasure.
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Old May 18th 2022, 10:05 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
In the end, Canada has to realize that these kind of issues at Canadian airports for international arrivals cannot go on like this forever.
I don't see why not. YYZ has always been a shitshow. The thing to do is to embrace the chaos, have prizes for the longest wait time of the week, make the crowds a tourist attraction, that sort of thing.
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Old May 18th 2022, 10:51 pm
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I don't see why not. YYZ has always been a shitshow. The thing to do is to embrace the chaos, have prizes for the longest wait time of the week, make the crowds a tourist attraction, that sort of thing.
Well, it's certainly never been like this prior to Covid at YYZ and I've travelled often via YYZ, never had any issues like this at all.

These is exactly one of the things that bother me about Canada:

1) The problem is denied, or described as always having been so.
2) Complete indifference, and "just doing my job attitude" not wanting to think any further, - even going up to law makers and decision makers. ( Not even Ford is interested in addressing this issue during his provincial election)
3) A sense of false loyalty towards ridiculous laws and regulations which other countries recovering their travel/tourism industry have managed to solve like London LHR. The ArriveCan also doesn't make any sense anymore, similarly the UK doesn't use this kind of system either anymore and neither do most EU countries.
4) The expectation that travellers, tourists, visitors, as well as immigrants/PRs and citizens are to accept this for the foreseeable future.
5) Criticism isn't seen as constructive, but as negative comments.

I'd say any congestion and rush hour on the overcrowded and aging London tube is handled more pragmatically.




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Old May 18th 2022, 11:50 pm
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
Well, it's certainly never been like this prior to Covid at YYZ and I've travelled often via YYZ, never had any issues like this at all.
Queues so long it was impossible to arrive on time for a flight were a feature for a long time. One stood outside the terminal, in the snow, at the end of the queue until someone came along looking for people about to miss their flight. Multi hour waits for bags have always been common. Sometimes the airport is usable but it's mostly amazingly bad. Traveling on business, I never flew the same day as my appointment because the airport wasn't reliable enough to support a same-day departure. I routinely drove to Chicago because it was quicker than flying from Toronto. The current bother really isn't unusual.

If this stuff concerns you, fly from Buffalo. Otherwise accept that every day at YYZ is like the first day at YYZ. Embrace the lack of stress the airport organizers have, it you just don't care, you'll live longer.
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Old May 19th 2022, 1:01 am
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Let's be honest unless you live in or close to a major city the airports and airlines have you by the short and curlies. They know people love to travel but do they really care about you? Pre Covid a return flight to go and see my mum was about $200 - $250 return direct flight and sometimes cheaper if a seat sale was on. Today no direct flight and cheapest return is about $520. Luckily I can drive it in about 7 - 8 hours dependent on traffic on the Trans Canada Donkey Path or how many speed traps I encounter.

Say I want to go back to the UK and like many others I prefer not to use Heathrow as I live Ooop North. Chances are I have to use Pearson and then find a carrier who might consider flying to Manchester. In the end my travel is dictated by what airlines are available and which airports they use. Airlines care about putting bums in seats and they know their most profitable routes. Airports know this so can ramp up the landing costs for these airlines. Ever seen the landing fees at Pearson? Google shows currently a A777-300 is about $5300.

https://cdn.torontopearson.com/-/med...C3ADE8C28C5DF3

The UK regulator just approved in January a 37% hike in landing fees at Heathrow.
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Old May 19th 2022, 7:27 am
  #29  
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
Queues so long it was impossible to arrive on time for a flight were a feature for a long time. One stood outside the terminal, in the snow, at the end of the queue until someone came along looking for people about to miss their flight. Multi hour waits for bags have always been common. Sometimes the airport is usable but it's mostly amazingly bad. Traveling on business, I never flew the same day as my appointment because the airport wasn't reliable enough to support a same-day departure. I routinely drove to Chicago because it was quicker than flying from Toronto. The current bother really isn't unusual.

If this stuff concerns you, fly from Buffalo. Otherwise accept that every day at YYZ is like the first day at YYZ. Embrace the lack of stress the airport organizers have, it you just don't care, you'll live longer.
I even find the statement "if this stuff concerns you" very concerning. If I would portray the same attitude in my job, I'd be fired on the spot.

To me this is an inadequacy and a shortcoming which needs to be solved ASAP.

In the end, this can't be the norm, nor can be the un-clarity by what date it's expected to be resolved.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tra...LFazsi6ImIS9JY
Also the ArriveCan is in my opinion obsolete by now, it's not fit for purpose and these long queues certainty don't reduce the infection risk, - mask or no mask.

I am also wondering, why Billy Bishop and Porter airlines isn't a choice? Apparently, I can't book a flight from Europe, connecting somewhere else in Canada, to arrive in Toronto with Porter Airlines.
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Old May 19th 2022, 1:43 pm
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Default Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I even find the statement "if this stuff concerns you" very concerning. If I would portray the same attitude in my job, I'd be fired on the spot.

To me this is an inadequacy and a shortcoming which needs to be solved ASAP.

In the end, this can't be the norm, nor can be the un-clarity by what date it's expected to be resolved.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tra...LFazsi6ImIS9JY
Also the ArriveCan is in my opinion obsolete by now, it's not fit for purpose and these long queues certainty don't reduce the infection risk, - mask or no mask.

I am also wondering, why Billy Bishop and Porter airlines isn't a choice? Apparently, I can't book a flight from Europe, connecting somewhere else in Canada, to arrive in Toronto with Porter Airlines.
Agreed that most people could not work to the standard of the Toronto airport and have a job next week but, it's the Toronto airport, that's how it is.

Porter from the island means a change of airlines to go anywhere and that means a high probability of lost luggage. It's just less hassle to have al the legs in one direction on one carrier. As well, if you take Porter to wherever they go, Ottawa say, isn't the next flight going to hub back through Toronto? For convenience it makes sense to get out of Canada quickly, Buffalo flights won't go via Toronto.
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