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Former Lancastrian May 6th 2022 7:51 pm

GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 
So obviously Covid is over or is it?
Now my twisted sense of humour dictates that I am laughing at the scenes at Pearson airport. Who could not have foreseen this happening as well as the line up's at Passport and Service Canada offices.
Thankfully I am not travelling out of the country anytime soon and my passport still has 2 years left on it.
Imagine a traveller from the UK having to deal with Heathrow then a 7 hour plus flight then arriving at Pearson and if unlucky then spending another 3 hours on the tarmac before allowed off and then off to see CBSA.
Absolute madness I expect.

bats May 6th 2022 7:57 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 13112814)
So obviously Covid is over or is it?
Now my twisted sense of humour dictates that I am laughing at the scenes at Pearson airport. Who could not have foreseen this happening as well as the line up's at Passport and Service Canada offices.
Thankfully I am not travelling out of the country anytime soon and my passport still has 2 years left on it.
Imagine a traveller from the UK having to deal with Heathrow then a 7 hour plus flight then arriving at Pearson and if unlucky then spending another 3 hours on the tarmac before allowed off and then off to see CBSA.
Absolute madness I expect.

Oh don't. We were talking about this the other day as we have to travel south in July. We were discussing whether it would be better to fly from the Islands and have a stopover or to hope Pearson has improved by then. It's a shitty airport at the best of times and last time they sent us off to another line with our dog and we had to wait ages there with the barking pet dogs until a CBSA officer came over and checked our paperwork and sent us on our way. Pretty sure we werent meant to be in that line up with a service dog.

dbd33 May 6th 2022 8:30 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by bats (Post 13112817)
Oh don't. We were talking about this the other day as we have to travel south in July. We were discussing whether it would be better to fly from the Islands and have a stopover or to hope Pearson has improved by then. It's a shitty airport at the best of times and last time they sent us off to another line with our dog and we had to wait ages there with the barking pet dogs until a CBSA officer came over and checked our paperwork and sent us on our way. Pretty sure we werent meant to be in that line up with a service dog.

Why wouldn't you fly from Buffalo? Stay overnight at the Holiday Inn and they'll park your car for a week. The whole deal is cheaper and less hassle than YYZ and you can go for wings

bats May 6th 2022 11:06 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13112824)
Why wouldn't you fly from Buffalo? Stay overnight at the Holiday Inn and they'll park your car for a week. The whole deal is cheaper and less hassle than YYZ and you can go for wings

We've done Buffalo before and it was fine but there aren't any direct flights, We are considering flying from Syracuse but it's Frontier Airlines which makes me think it will be staffed by people in fringed jackets wearing stetsons,

PS I don't eat wings, all that skin and gristle, yuck

dbd33 May 7th 2022 1:35 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by bats (Post 13112839)
We've done Buffalo before and it was fine but there aren't any direct flights, We are considering flying from Syracuse but it's Frontier Airlines which makes me think it will be staffed by people in fringed jackets wearing stetsons,

PS I don't eat wings, all that skin and gristle, yuck

I've survived Frontier, last flight the announcer was a scouse, but Syracuse is hard to get to and scary when you're there. I suppose the local delicacy might be more palatable than wings, skunk or raccoon, or similar.

If one choice was Syracuse, I'd look at Detroit, cheap parking, lots of flights, soul food or Mexican before the flight.

bats May 7th 2022 2:22 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13112844)
I've survived Frontier, last flight the announcer was a scouse, but Syracuse is hard to get to and scary when you're there. I suppose the local delicacy might be more palatable than wings, skunk or raccoon, or similar.

If one choice was Syracuse, I'd look at Detroit, cheap parking, lots of flights, soul food or Mexican before the flight.

That's 5 and a half hours from us non stop and we don't do non stop driving anymore. Or road trips, agh, what a misery, The choice seems to be Pearson and hope that they change whatever it is that's causing chaos. So that's pretty doubtful. We fly Porter with a stopover, or we drive. driving is boring but the border crossing is easier and better for the dog but not particularly kind on the humans.

dbd33 May 7th 2022 11:13 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by bats (Post 13112845)
The choice seems to be Pearson and hope that they change whatever it is that's causing chaos.

That's one of those "faint hope" things, isn't it? Like detained at her majesty's pleasure.

Former Lancastrian May 7th 2022 12:01 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13112900)
That's one of those "faint hope" things, isn't it? Like detained at her majesty's pleasure.

Well unless given a whole life sentence order most detained at her majesty's pleasure have a release date. One could argue that the security line up's also have a release date but no guarantee the plane you are waiting to catch will still be on the ground once released.
I wonder what the % of people are who do the following
Oh great I am vaccinated so I can fly again. Wow that looks a good deal $1200 one week all inclusive leaving in 3 weeks I am booking it. What do you mean it is taking so long to renew a passport I need it now and don't be criticizing the fact that I never bothered to check my passport validity before booking.

Yes eventually it should get better just don't ask when.

dbd33 May 7th 2022 12:20 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 13112910)
Well unless given a whole life sentence order most detained at her majesty's pleasure have a release date. One could argue that the security line up's also have a release date but no guarantee the plane you are waiting to catch will still be on the ground once released.
I wonder what the % of people are who do the following
Oh great I am vaccinated so I can fly again. Wow that looks a good deal $1200 one week all inclusive leaving in 3 weeks I am booking it. What do you mean it is taking so long to renew a passport I need it now and don't be criticizing the fact that I never bothered to check my passport validity before booking.

Yes eventually it should get better just don't ask when.

I have only used the Toronto airport since 1981. Every time I've been there it's been organized as if it's the very first day of operation. It may have been better before 1981 and it may be better one day but then Lord Lucan may ride by on Shergar.

It used to bother me, it got me down that it was quicker to drive to Chicago than to queue at the airport, but I've grown to accept chaos there as being charming in a way. They could contract out the management to the BAA or one of the American airport authorities and have it all run smoothly but those plucky Indians just keep plugging away hoping that somehow, someday, there will be a happy passenger. Robert the Bruce, spider, that sort of thing.

bats May 7th 2022 4:45 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 
We've decided to drive down. It's the best way really we've done it a few times but a few years ago.

OrangeMango May 18th 2022 9:29 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 13112814)
So obviously Covid is over or is it?
Now my twisted sense of humour dictates that I am laughing at the scenes at Pearson airport. Who could not have foreseen this happening as well as the line up's at Passport and Service Canada offices.
Thankfully I am not travelling out of the country anytime soon and my passport still has 2 years left on it.
Imagine a traveller from the UK having to deal with Heathrow then a 7 hour plus flight then arriving at Pearson and if unlucky then spending another 3 hours on the tarmac before allowed off and then off to see CBSA.
Absolute madness I expect.

I was actually recently in London LHR and security as well as immigration was a real breeze. British, Canadian, US, Australian and Singapore citizens can also use the automatic gates, whilst EU citizens have to queue for a bit linger, but it's nothing compared to Pearson.

I've read about this chaos at YYZ Pearson airport. Long queues for those departing and long wait times, at immigration for those arriving, plus sitting on the tarmac for many hours prior to arriving.
I think lawmakers haven't understood that passengers should spend the minimum amount of time at airports to avoid any Covid infection. Immigration and the CBSA is probably totally understaffed, to deal with checking vaccination certificates.

Is this only Pearson airport or all other airports as well?

Would it be a credible choice to fly from Billy Bishop to the US and then onwards to Europe and vice versa? I've tried looking at flights where I can connect from Europe, coming into Toronto Billy Bishop using Porter airlines? However it doesn't seem to be possible to book on a single trip?

Any ideas on this?

Gozit May 18th 2022 9:33 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 13115723)
I was actually recently in London LHR and security as well as immigration was a real breeze. British, Canadian, US, Australian and Singapore citizens can also use the automatic gates, whilst EU citizens have to queue for a bit linger, but it's nothing compared to Pearson.

I've read about this chaos at YYZ Pearson airport. Long queues for those departing and long wait times, at immigration for those arriving, plus sitting on the tarmac for many hours prior to arriving.
I think lawmakers haven't understood that passengers should spend the minimum amount of time at airports to avoid any Covid infection. Immigration and the CBSA is probably totally understaffed, to deal with checking vaccination certificates.

Is this only Pearson airport or all other airports as well?

Would it be a credible choice to fly from Billy Bishop to the US and then onwards to Europe and vice versa? I've tried looking at flights where I can connect from Europe, coming into Toronto Billy Bishop using Porter airlines? However it doesn't seem to be possible to book on a single trip?

Any ideas on this?

Best is to fly into BUF/DTW and drive to Toronto if you want to avoid YYZ.

Or, fly into YUL (Montreal) and take a domestic flight to YYZ.

I am flying back to YYZ on Saturday and am debating booking a dummy connecting flight to get me off the plane faster in the event of a delay.

OrangeMango May 18th 2022 9:36 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 13115725)

Or, fly into YUL (Montreal) and take a domestic flight to YYZ.

I did that once, KLM to Montreal and Westjet to Toronto, arrived at the domestic terminal, everything was "a breeze". This was a couple of months before the pandemic.

So the domestic terminal at YYZ is not affected by these issues at all?

Gozit May 18th 2022 9:38 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 13115727)
I did that once, KLM to Montreal and Westjet to Toronto, arrived at the domestic terminal, everything was "a breeze". This was a couple of months before the pandemic.

So the domestic terminal at YYZ is not affected by these issues at all?

One would assume not as the current backlog due to all the persistent covid checks and resurgence in demand is for international travel, not domestic. There is no customs check, arrivecan, or anything on arrival from a domestic flight, that would all be done in YUL.

OrangeMango May 18th 2022 9:41 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 13115728)
One would assume not as the current backlog due to all the persistent covid checks and resurgence in demand is for international travel, not domestic. There is no customs check, arrivecan, or anything on arrival from a domestic flight, that would all be done in YUL.

Yes, that would make sense. And in YUL and the other international airports they don't have that problem at all? like keeping planes for hours on the tarmac? or endless queues at immigration? It's really only YYZ?

Gozit May 18th 2022 10:03 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 13115730)
Yes, that would make sense. And in YUL and the other international airports they don't have that problem at all? like keeping planes for hours on the tarmac? or endless queues at immigration? It's really only YYZ?

I mean I have never been to YUL to verify but it is only YYZ that's all over the news.

OrangeMango May 18th 2022 10:15 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 13115736)
I mean I have never been to YUL to verify but it is only YYZ that's all over the news.

So, I've read as well. Nothing on YUL or the other airports.

Just wondering how this plays out in real life in YYZ? If one is transferring via YYZ, would they then let passengers with connecting flights to disembark sooner? Or would they be able to jump the CBSA queue?
I mean, it can't be that every passenger connecting to another flight at YYZ is missing his / her flight just because of these issues?

Atlantic Xpat May 18th 2022 11:14 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 
I'm shortly booking travel to UK so this thread is of interest. I'm going to fly via Halifax on the way back - shorter flights, smaller airport, if I miss the connection I've got friends living nearby - but outbound I probably need to travel via YYZ or YUL as for some reason the Halifax flight is now a daytime flight rather than overnight which is less convenient. Are the Pearson issues to do with immigration and airport security primarily? Flying outbound domestic to international should avoid those I think. Anyone done that lately?

Former Lancastrian May 18th 2022 11:54 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 
Some on here will know that I work for a certain Federal Govt Agency and used to work at an International Airport. Dependent on time of day travelling either domestically or internationally at the moment is a PITA.
Customs/CBSA have nothing to do with domestic flights in Canada full stop. They only deal with arriving international passengers or those transiting Canada for onward flights.

Multiple airports are reporting extremely long lines at airport security and border screening checkpoints while passengers say they are being forced to wait for hours -- and sometimes missing their flights.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/flight...ster-1.5898406


Travellers are expressing frustration and outrage after lengthy waits at Vancouver International Airport (YVR) resulted in delayed or missed flights.

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/t...ty-yvr-5322531
As COVID-19 travel restrictions continue to ease, passengers with flights departing from Vancouver International Airport are being asked to arrive hours ahead of their scheduled flights.

Joni Low said she arrived 90 minutes before her scheduled flight to Saskatoon earlier this week, only to miss it by minutes because of a long delay at the passenger security screening gate.

"I must have missed my 9:05 a.m. flight by probably two minutes because of these extraordinarily and unnecessarily long security lineups," Low told CBC News.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...lays-1.6436560

Take from these what you will and it is not just Pearson where delays are causing problems.

OrangeMango May 18th 2022 12:52 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 13115762)
Some on here will know that I work for a certain Federal Govt Agency and used to work at an International Airport. Dependent on time of day travelling either domestically or internationally at the moment is a PITA.
Customs/CBSA have nothing to do with domestic flights in Canada full stop. They only deal with arriving international passengers or those transiting Canada for onward flights.

Multiple airports are reporting extremely long lines at airport security and border screening checkpoints while passengers say they are being forced to wait for hours -- and sometimes missing their flights.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/flight...ster-1.5898406


Travellers are expressing frustration and outrage after lengthy waits at Vancouver International Airport (YVR) resulted in delayed or missed flights.

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/t...ty-yvr-5322531
As COVID-19 travel restrictions continue to ease, passengers with flights departing from Vancouver International Airport are being asked to arrive hours ahead of their scheduled flights.

Joni Low said she arrived 90 minutes before her scheduled flight to Saskatoon earlier this week, only to miss it by minutes because of a long delay at the passenger security screening gate.

"I must have missed my 9:05 a.m. flight by probably two minutes because of these extraordinarily and unnecessarily long security lineups," Low told CBC News.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...lays-1.6436560

Take from these what you will and it is not just Pearson where delays are causing problems.


Since you work in the industry, I have a couple of questions for you:

Do you think these issues are more happening on certain days of the week, or more at weekends?

Are they more in the morning or in the afternoon, evening?

Is the sole cause only checking the ArriveCAN and vaccination docs?

Or is it only staff shortage?

Also, there is the question, as to why Canada never introduced e-gates the same as Heathrow does?

These Canadian self service terminals only seem to do "half of the job", as even after one checks these documents in the self service terminals, one still proceeds to see a CBSA officer. At Heathrow, this is really an e-gate, where, after scanning in the passport, the gate opens, and one rarely sees an immigration officer, - probably only if someting isn't in order......

Former Lancastrian May 18th 2022 1:06 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 13115793)
Since you work in the industry, I have a couple of questions for you:

Do you think these issues are more happening on certain days of the week, or more at weekends? From all accounts they can happen anytime or any day of the week.

Are they more in the morning or in the afternoon, evening? Early morning can be bad at times and dependent on which airport you use evenings can be just as bad and Pearson closes down for about 4-5 hours after midnight.

Is the sole cause only checking the ArriveCAN and vaccination docs? Well it doesn't help when some airports have several thousand all arriving at the same time.

Or is it only staff shortage? CATSA (Security for Domestic and International) are certainly experiencing staff shortages.

Also, there is the question, as to why Canada never introduced e-gates the same as Heathrow does? ​​​​​​​That's a question for the Transport Minister. Canadian airports rely on self serve kiosks to clear passengers and the odd live human CBSA officer.

These Canadian self service terminals only seem to do "half of the job", as even after one checks these documents in the self service terminals, one still proceeds to see a CBSA officer. At Heathrow, this is really an e-gate, where, after scanning in the passport, the gate opens, and one rarely sees an immigration officer, - probably only if someting isn't in order......

Passenger arrives off a flight and I have no idea how many bags they have. Passenger declares they have only been absent for 3 days but has 6 x check in suitcases so ya think I might want them checked out?

OrangeMango May 18th 2022 1:17 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 13115804)
Passenger arrives off a flight and I have no idea how many bags they have. Passenger declares they have only been absent for 3 days but has 6 x check in suitcases so ya think I might want them checked out?

Well, it's certainly odd.in such a scenario. But if one wants to deceive customs for whatever reason, they'd probably send the suitcase with some other company, like "send my bag" or so. in hopes that they are not examined further....

But that's not the point of the discussion.

The discussion is, how to make it through the airport faster and smoother, not having endless wait times and missing connection flights.

Heathrow can handle it, so why can't they in Canada?

I think Canadian law makers never understood the practicalities. The longer one is in an queue, the higher the risk of a Covid infection, - and that's what they want or we all want to avoid. What's the point in checking vaccine certificates? It's probably a very difficult discussion to have with some people in Canada.....

Former Lancastrian May 18th 2022 1:33 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 
Because Canada is not the UK. I seem to recall though it could be fake news from the UK Daily Rags that passengers have been facing horrendous line ups at Heathrow, Manchester, Birmingham etc etc so are you sure UK airports can handle it?

I have no intention of using any airport within the next 12 months so hopefully when I decide to fly then things might be better or worse.

My mum lives 435 miles (700 kms) from me. I can either choose a 7.5 hour drive or fly. Pre Covid it was a 1 hour 15 minute direct flight. Now I have to go via another airport as no more direct flights so now it is a 2 hour 25 minute flight for a connecting flight that is 2 hours. Total distance flying is almost 1500 miles. Guess which way I am choosing to visit her next weekend.

OrangeMango May 18th 2022 2:20 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 13115822)
Because Canada is not the UK. I seem to recall though it could be fake news from the UK Daily Rags that passengers have been facing horrendous line ups at Heathrow, Manchester, Birmingham etc etc so are you sure UK airports can handle it?

I have no intention of using any airport within the next 12 months so hopefully when I decide to fly then things might be better or worse.

My mum lives 435 miles (700 kms) from me. I can either choose a 7.5 hour drive or fly. Pre Covid it was a 1 hour 15 minute direct flight. Now I have to go via another airport as no more direct flights so now it is a 2 hour 25 minute flight for a connecting flight that is 2 hours. Total distance flying is almost 1500 miles. Guess which way I am choosing to visit her next weekend.

As written, I recently passed through Heathrow, and also had friends passing through Heathrow, none reported problems. However I think there were "YYZ-like" problems, in the early stages when they've lifted the testing requirement.

In the end, Canada has to realize that these kind of issues at Canadian airports for international arrivals cannot go on like this forever. These long delays, queues and endless checks of vaccine passports also will never ever keep the virus out, it will only be an accelerator for the virus to spread in large crowds at airports.

Let's hope Canadian lawmakers finally wake up.

And then there is also the tourism sector in Canada to recover. We can't expect for tourists to endure this kind of treatment if we want the tourism sector to grow and be welcoming to visitors, no matter if they come for business or pleasure.

dbd33 May 18th 2022 10:05 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 13115843)
In the end, Canada has to realize that these kind of issues at Canadian airports for international arrivals cannot go on like this forever.

I don't see why not. YYZ has always been a shitshow. The thing to do is to embrace the chaos, have prizes for the longest wait time of the week, make the crowds a tourist attraction, that sort of thing.

OrangeMango May 18th 2022 10:51 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13116010)
I don't see why not. YYZ has always been a shitshow. The thing to do is to embrace the chaos, have prizes for the longest wait time of the week, make the crowds a tourist attraction, that sort of thing.

Well, it's certainly never been like this prior to Covid at YYZ and I've travelled often via YYZ, never had any issues like this at all.

These is exactly one of the things that bother me about Canada:

1) The problem is denied, or described as always having been so.
2) Complete indifference, and "just doing my job attitude" not wanting to think any further, - even going up to law makers and decision makers. ( Not even Ford is interested in addressing this issue during his provincial election)
3) A sense of false loyalty towards ridiculous laws and regulations which other countries recovering their travel/tourism industry have managed to solve like London LHR. The ArriveCan also doesn't make any sense anymore, similarly the UK doesn't use this kind of system either anymore and neither do most EU countries.
4) The expectation that travellers, tourists, visitors, as well as immigrants/PRs and citizens are to accept this for the foreseeable future.
5) Criticism isn't seen as constructive, but as negative comments.

I'd say any congestion and rush hour on the overcrowded and aging London tube is handled more pragmatically.





dbd33 May 18th 2022 11:50 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 13116024)
Well, it's certainly never been like this prior to Covid at YYZ and I've travelled often via YYZ, never had any issues like this at all.

Queues so long it was impossible to arrive on time for a flight were a feature for a long time. One stood outside the terminal, in the snow, at the end of the queue until someone came along looking for people about to miss their flight. Multi hour waits for bags have always been common. Sometimes the airport is usable but it's mostly amazingly bad. Traveling on business, I never flew the same day as my appointment because the airport wasn't reliable enough to support a same-day departure. I routinely drove to Chicago because it was quicker than flying from Toronto. The current bother really isn't unusual.

If this stuff concerns you, fly from Buffalo. Otherwise accept that every day at YYZ is like the first day at YYZ. Embrace the lack of stress the airport organizers have, it you just don't care, you'll live longer.

Former Lancastrian May 19th 2022 1:01 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 
Let's be honest unless you live in or close to a major city the airports and airlines have you by the short and curlies. They know people love to travel but do they really care about you? Pre Covid a return flight to go and see my mum was about $200 - $250 return direct flight and sometimes cheaper if a seat sale was on. Today no direct flight and cheapest return is about $520. Luckily I can drive it in about 7 - 8 hours dependent on traffic on the Trans Canada Donkey Path or how many speed traps I encounter.

Say I want to go back to the UK and like many others I prefer not to use Heathrow as I live Ooop North. Chances are I have to use Pearson and then find a carrier who might consider flying to Manchester. In the end my travel is dictated by what airlines are available and which airports they use. Airlines care about putting bums in seats and they know their most profitable routes. Airports know this so can ramp up the landing costs for these airlines. Ever seen the landing fees at Pearson? Google shows currently a A777-300 is about $5300.

https://cdn.torontopearson.com/-/med...C3ADE8C28C5DF3

The UK regulator just approved in January a 37% hike in landing fees at Heathrow.

OrangeMango May 19th 2022 7:27 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13116033)
Queues so long it was impossible to arrive on time for a flight were a feature for a long time. One stood outside the terminal, in the snow, at the end of the queue until someone came along looking for people about to miss their flight. Multi hour waits for bags have always been common. Sometimes the airport is usable but it's mostly amazingly bad. Traveling on business, I never flew the same day as my appointment because the airport wasn't reliable enough to support a same-day departure. I routinely drove to Chicago because it was quicker than flying from Toronto. The current bother really isn't unusual.

If this stuff concerns you, fly from Buffalo. Otherwise accept that every day at YYZ is like the first day at YYZ. Embrace the lack of stress the airport organizers have, it you just don't care, you'll live longer.

I even find the statement "if this stuff concerns you" very concerning. If I would portray the same attitude in my job, I'd be fired on the spot.

To me this is an inadequacy and a shortcoming which needs to be solved ASAP.

In the end, this can't be the norm, nor can be the un-clarity by what date it's expected to be resolved.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tra...LFazsi6ImIS9JY
Also the ArriveCan is in my opinion obsolete by now, it's not fit for purpose and these long queues certainty don't reduce the infection risk, - mask or no mask.

I am also wondering, why Billy Bishop and Porter airlines isn't a choice? Apparently, I can't book a flight from Europe, connecting somewhere else in Canada, to arrive in Toronto with Porter Airlines.

dbd33 May 19th 2022 1:43 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 13116075)
I even find the statement "if this stuff concerns you" very concerning. If I would portray the same attitude in my job, I'd be fired on the spot.

To me this is an inadequacy and a shortcoming which needs to be solved ASAP.

In the end, this can't be the norm, nor can be the un-clarity by what date it's expected to be resolved.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tra...LFazsi6ImIS9JY
Also the ArriveCan is in my opinion obsolete by now, it's not fit for purpose and these long queues certainty don't reduce the infection risk, - mask or no mask.

I am also wondering, why Billy Bishop and Porter airlines isn't a choice? Apparently, I can't book a flight from Europe, connecting somewhere else in Canada, to arrive in Toronto with Porter Airlines.

Agreed that most people could not work to the standard of the Toronto airport and have a job next week but, it's the Toronto airport, that's how it is.

Porter from the island means a change of airlines to go anywhere and that means a high probability of lost luggage. It's just less hassle to have al the legs in one direction on one carrier. As well, if you take Porter to wherever they go, Ottawa say, isn't the next flight going to hub back through Toronto? For convenience it makes sense to get out of Canada quickly, Buffalo flights won't go via Toronto.

bats May 19th 2022 4:13 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13116138)
Agreed that most people could not work to the standard of the Toronto airport and have a job next week but, it's the Toronto airport, that's how it is.

Porter from the island means a change of airlines to go anywhere and that means a high probability of lost luggage. It's just less hassle to have al the legs in one direction on one carrier. As well, if you take Porter to wherever they go, Ottawa say, isn't the next flight going to hub back through Toronto? For convenience it makes sense to get out of Canada quickly, Buffalo flights won't go via Toronto.

Buffalo flights seem to be cut back too, I couldn't find any direct flights to Durham Raleigh and I am sure they used to have them. and of course no direct flights to the UK. I'm forever telling myself I should use Ottawa or Montreal, maybe one day I actually will.

OrangeMango May 19th 2022 6:04 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13116138)
Agreed that most people could not work to the standard of the Toronto airport and have a job next week but, it's the Toronto airport, that's how it is.

Porter from the island means a change of airlines to go anywhere and that means a high probability of lost luggage. It's just less hassle to have al the legs in one direction on one carrier. As well, if you take Porter to wherever they go, Ottawa say, isn't the next flight going to hub back through Toronto? For convenience it makes sense to get out of Canada quickly, Buffalo flights won't go via Toronto.

I don't quite understand your suggestion "the next flight going to hub back through Toronto".

To me it would be Billy Bishop with Porter to Montreal, or Halifax, or Ottawa, and then another airline to Europe and return. It would be a code share booking. Ottawa always used to have flights to LHR, at least pre-Covid, same as Halifax, also Montreal for sure.

It's not that complicated or difficult.

It seems more that Porter doesn't allow code share bookings.

dbd33 May 20th 2022 2:01 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 13116174)
I don't quite understand your suggestion "the next flight going to hub back through Toronto".


It is often the case that flights from minor cities, say Ottawa or Buffalo, don't go directly to Europe but to a larger airport ,"a hub", say Toronto or Chicago, where they pick up more passengers or the passengers change to another plane. If the objective is to avoid the airport in Toronto then starting from a minor airport may not help. Setting out from Toronto, flying to a minor airport, and then catching a flight that uses Toronto as a hub, would be rather an own goal. This would be especially true if one's bags were still at the minor airport, something that's a risk whenever bags are moved between aeroplanes.


bats May 20th 2022 2:34 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 13116174)
I don't quite understand your suggestion "the next flight going to hub back through Toronto".

To me it would be Billy Bishop with Porter to Montreal, or Halifax, or Ottawa, and then another airline to Europe and return. It would be a code share booking. Ottawa always used to have flights to LHR, at least pre-Covid, same as Halifax, also Montreal for sure.

It's not that complicated or difficult.

It seems more that Porter doesn't allow code share bookings.

i was looking up codeshare and what it means and found this
https://www.flyporter.com/en/about-p...eement+2022+03

OrangeMango May 21st 2022 10:26 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 
I think the main question for politicians and lawmakers is why they want to do so much extra checks for Covid at airports? . It's simply not that the virus gets into Canada that way, the virus is already there and so it is on all countries. Also, why spend a fortune on random testing at arrivals as well?

It would be more prudent to keep queues and times of passengers at airports as short as possible to minimize the risk of infection. Remember, to check the validity of a passport or allow somebody to enter the country only takes somewhere between 25 and 45 seconds, with today's IT equipment.

With the current attitude, the travel and tourism industry won't recover that easily. The current message to international tourists is still "don't travel to Canada", unless you enjoy being in packed queues for 3 hours or enjoy sitting in an overheated airplane on the tarmac for another 2 hours prior to that.....

It's simply shocking how backwards the thinking in Canada is these days and any criticism is either ridiculed or downplayed.

dbd33 May 21st 2022 11:23 pm

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 13116657)

With the current attitude, the travel and tourism industry won't recover that easily.\

I would think tourists landing at the Toronto airport intend to visit Niagara Falls. That's the local attraction. It won't make a lot of difference to the tourist industry if they arrive at Buffalo instead.

OrangeMango May 22nd 2022 8:17 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13116663)
I would think tourists landing at the Toronto airport intend to visit Niagara Falls. That's the local attraction. It won't make a lot of difference to the tourist industry if they arrive at Buffalo instead.

There is a megabus Service from Buffalo Airport to Toronto. The trip is for around 3 hours. Except Tuesday and Wednesday it seems to run daily.

How would US immigration react ( especially in Covid terms) if I would arrive in the US, only to transit to Canada, let's say via JFK, then fly to Buffalo and then take a bus?

Also would there be two "Covid queues" one upon arrival in the US, one at the US-Canada border?

dbd33 May 22nd 2022 11:33 am

Re: GTAA (Go To Another Airport)
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 13116705)
There is a megabus Service from Buffalo Airport to Toronto. The trip is for around 3 hours. Except Tuesday and Wednesday it seems to run daily.

How would US immigration react ( especially in Covid terms) if I would arrive in the US, only to transit to Canada, let's say via JFK, then fly to Buffalo and then take a bus?

Also would there be two "Covid queues" one upon arrival in the US, one at the US-Canada border?

No idea. When I recently went to Europe I flew from Toronto accepting that it would be a shambles and allowing a day clear the airport inbound and outbound. I think that, if you're going to live in, or near, Toronto, airport chaos is just something to live with, like terrible drivers and occasional snow. I used Buffalo all the time when I flew on business but, for domestic or pleasure, timing isn't critical so I just roll with the local vibe.


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