Groceries

Old Jan 2nd 2021, 11:50 pm
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Default Re: Groceries

Cheaper petrol/gas is misleading, because you will probably have to travel much further to get from one place to another, than you do in the UK. Probably find you spend similar amounts per week/month.
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 12:09 am
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Default Re: Groceries

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
Cheaper petrol/gas is misleading, because you will probably have to travel much further to get from one place to another, than you do in the UK. Probably find you spend similar amounts per week/month.
Yes, I suppose you’re right, although I guess that depends where you live? If I lived and worked in Kelowna (dream city), it would probably be much the same as my Wife’s 45 min commute from West Lancs to Liverpool wouldn’t it?

But sticking to groceries, why are things much more expensive? I can’t imagine there not being enough resources available for Canada to be self-sufficient? The diverse climate should mean that you can grow/rear pretty much everything, right? I guess transportation will play a factor in costs but still..
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 12:34 am
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Originally Posted by mdonald1987
Yes, I suppose you’re right, although I guess that depends where you live? If I lived and worked in Kelowna (dream city), it would probably be much the same as my Wife’s 45 min commute from West Lancs to Liverpool wouldn’t it?

But sticking to groceries, why are things much more expensive? I can’t imagine there not being enough resources available for Canada to be self-sufficient? The diverse climate should mean that you can grow/rear pretty much everything, right? I guess transportation will play a factor in costs but still..
Fruit and vegetables in winter often come from the US or Mexico, so they cost more when out of season. I shop the sales and stock up on what I like when I can. Food has gone up recently, but recognising what is a deal and what isn't helps. The cans of coffee in the flyer still go on sometimes for $7, the bags of coffee beans at $12 go on sale at Superstore sometimes for $9 (I bought 2), and I get a lot of use out of the flashfood app (of limited use in Kelowna as they only have 2 stores that use it) sometimes getting great deals. The 2 Superstores in Kelowna and Westbank might start loading new items during the next hour leading up to opening.
Here's the current No Frills flyer, and links to others.
https://www.flyers-on-line.com/weekl.../current-flyer
And here's what flashfood in Kelowna looks like. It takes a bit of planning not to waste the perishable stuff, but when I'm nailing those clamshells of salad mix for .50 or $1 I can get 2 or 3 nice big salads and if I have to compost a little, too bad.



An hour later, no new items; pickings are thin there.

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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 2:42 am
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Default Re: Groceries

Originally Posted by caretaker
Fruit and vegetables in winter often come from the US or Mexico, so they cost more when out of season. I shop the sales and stock up on what I like when I can. Food has gone up recently, but recognising what is a deal and what isn't helps. The cans of coffee in the flyer still go on sometimes for $7, the bags of coffee beans at $12 go on sale at Superstore sometimes for $9 (I bought 2), and I get a lot of use out of the flashfood app (of limited use in Kelowna as they only have 2 stores that use it) sometimes getting great deals. The 2 Superstores in Kelowna and Westbank might start loading new items during the next hour leading up to opening.
Here's the current No Frills flyer, and links to others.
https://www.flyers-on-line.com/weekl.../current-flyer
And here's what flashfood in Kelowna looks like. It takes a bit of planning not to waste the perishable stuff, but when I'm nailing those clamshells of salad mix for .50 or $1 I can get 2 or 3 nice big salads and if I have to compost a little, too bad.



An hour later, no new items; pickings are thin there.
So it appears we would have to be much more savvy when it comes to our weekly food shop. We tend to get everything delivered from Tesco, even if it’s cheaper elsewhere, mainly for the ease of it. But if I’m spending $90 for the above items, I’ll definitely be shopping around!
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 4:21 am
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Default Re: Groceries

Originally Posted by mdonald1987
Yes, I suppose you’re right, although I guess that depends where you live? If I lived and worked in Kelowna (dream city), it would probably be much the same as my Wife’s 45 min commute from West Lancs to Liverpool wouldn’t it?

But sticking to groceries, why are things much more expensive? I can’t imagine there not being enough resources available for Canada to be self-sufficient? The diverse climate should mean that you can grow/rear pretty much everything, right? I guess transportation will play a factor in costs but still..
The distances required to transport do contribute to the cost of goods - imagine having to send staple items from moscow to plymouth every couple of days, then store them before they go out on display.. and how much that might end up costing the consumer.. it's a big country.. prices in the Atlantic Provinces and way up North are higher than Ontario, for instance. We have to import quite a lot of vegetables and fruits - you can't grown much for a few months every year when the ground is frozen across the whole country! It helps to eat seasonally - or use more frozen veg in winter.

Prices definitely vary across Canada - so check where you are going to be living - SaleWhale and save.ca websites can be useful for checking prices in flyers (though flyers often show items that are on offer that week, so not your 'everyday' prices) https://www.salewhale.ca/ and https://www.save.ca/flyers or check out the major grocery chain in the City you are interested in.

I live around a 5 minute walk from a Metro, for instance.. but it works out cheaper to go to Food Basics / Freshco or Walmart to get my groceries. despite having to get a cab home! Not all grocery stores are equal. Now that I have most groceries delivered, I can either pay more for the groceries and get a lower delivery cost and no tip required.. or pay a lower price for the groceries but have to pay a higher delivery cost and a tip on top.
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 5:55 am
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Default Re: Groceries

Originally Posted by mdonald1987
Yes, I suppose you’re right, although I guess that depends where you live? If I lived and worked in Kelowna (dream city), it would probably be much the same as my Wife’s 45 min commute from West Lancs to Liverpool wouldn’t it?

But sticking to groceries, why are things much more expensive? I can’t imagine there not being enough resources available for Canada to be self-sufficient? The diverse climate should mean that you can grow/rear pretty much everything, right? I guess transportation will play a factor in costs but still..
Some products are controlled and regulated to a point there isn't a free market and inflated prices because of that. Milk is one example, here in BC the milk marketing board sets quotas, controls production, and thus prices are basically the same at every single store within a few pennies, there is no competition in milk which results in any dairy product being higher cost.

Chicken has a similiar marketing board, and why chicken prices are high.

google cheese smuggling Canada, cheese is so high cost in Canada, there is a smuggling problem from the US.


There is also limited competition in the grocery market in BC

There may be an illusion of competition as these companies are creative in making people think there is competition.

Loblaws owns: Super Store, Loblaws Markets, No Frills, Independent Grocer, Shopper's Drug Mart, T&T (I may have missed some as they own many more brands, but these are the main banners that operate in BC)

BC billionaire Jim Pattison through his companies operate Save On Foods (wont save anything there) Urban Faire, Price Smart Foods, Nesters Market, Buy-Low Foods, Choices Market.

Sobeys owns Safeway, Thrifty Foods, Freshco.


These 3 own the bulk of the grocery stores in BC, they also may own bakeries, and food wholesalers controlling even larger parts of the food market.

Then there is Wal-Mart and Costco the only real competition to the above, but Costco being members only, and limited locations is more in its own space along with Loblaws owned Wholesale Club.

There was a bread price fixing scandal a few years back, I think I got a $20 check as compensation or was it a gift card, I forget.

Cell phones and airlines really no competition there either on a widescale.




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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 11:33 am
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Default Re: Groceries

Originally Posted by mdonald1987
So it appears we would have to be much more savvy when it comes to our weekly food shop.
Yes, but it's really not difficult. Much depends if you have access to different stores - is there one near your doctor or dentist or maybe there's one close to where you work/spouse works. Is there one on the way home from somewhere or two rival stores 5 minutes apart. There might be a restaurant you discover you like and maybe there's a different supermarket close by. Where I am, the cinema complexes are in the same commercial centres as three different supermarket rivals; see a movie and pop in for the one or two things half the cost of where you'd normally shop.

Don't ignore the big pharmacy chains that may appear expensive but they have their deals too. Milk, bread, cereals, pop and dairy stuff is often cheaper there.

Once you get used to how often you can buy stuff for half or less its normal cost, buy a few at the lower prices and bung them in your freezer. Buy cheap chickens 'this week' but buy your beef 'next week'...that sort of thing. If you're aware that your favoured steak is $7 lb instead of its usual $20 in a branch you wouldn't normally use, maybe there's a nearby liquor store to justify doing both.

I've always reckoned to save 30-40% this way.
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Old Jan 4th 2021, 6:54 am
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Default Re: Groceries

The "Flipp" app is a useful tool to review the flyers for each grocery chain & see who has what on special this week. It does influence our buying decisions - when chicken breast is on sale for example, we'll buy a bunch and freeze them. It's certainly more worthwhile, indeed, necessary to shop around in Canada than it is in the UK IMHO. Siouxie and JSmith are both right - transportation costs are much more significant than in the UK (& things are a damn sight more expensive here in Newfoundland than ON as a result) as well as controlled markets, particularly for dairy (milk, cheese). The newly arrived expats incredulity at the price of cheese is a BE trope for a reason!
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Old Jan 4th 2021, 3:05 pm
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I don't know of commercial shipments of goods follow the same pattern, but I notice with consumer deliveries since living in Kelowna, that nearly everything goes to Vancouver first, then back tracks east into the interior after being sorted in Vancouver area. Only courier that doesn't seem to do this is Purolator where parcels stop in Calgary then come to Kelowna from there.

I guess its more efficient in the long run for these companies to do the sort in Vancouver just in a way seems like a waste of time and energy for parcels to have to back track hundreds of kilometers.

I just wonder if groceries are doing the same, everything goes to the warehouses in Vancouver then sorted, picked and loaded to send back out to the rest of the province.
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Old Jan 4th 2021, 11:42 pm
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Unsure if I should report this to the Humane Society/SPCA:

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Old Jan 4th 2021, 11:46 pm
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Originally Posted by caretaker
Unsure if I should report this to the Humane Society/SPCA:
If it's stocked near the hot dog buns it's probably okay.
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 6:34 am
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Originally Posted by caretaker
Unsure if I should report this to the Humane Society/SPCA:
Frank is not impressed!
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 7:52 am
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Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Some products are controlled and regulated to a point there isn't a free market and inflated prices because of that. Milk is one example, here in BC the milk marketing board sets quotas, controls production, and thus prices are basically the same at every single store within a few pennies, there is no competition in milk which results in any dairy product being higher cost.

Chicken has a similiar marketing board, and why chicken prices are high.

google cheese smuggling Canada, cheese is so high cost in Canada, there is a smuggling problem from the US.


There is also limited competition in the grocery market in BC

There may be an illusion of competition as these companies are creative in making people think there is competition.

Loblaws owns: Super Store, Loblaws Markets, No Frills, Independent Grocer, Shopper's Drug Mart, T&T (I may have missed some as they own many more brands, but these are the main banners that operate in BC)

BC billionaire Jim Pattison through his companies operate Save On Foods (wont save anything there) Urban Faire, Price Smart Foods, Nesters Market, Buy-Low Foods, Choices Market.

Sobeys owns Safeway, Thrifty Foods, Freshco.


These 3 own the bulk of the grocery stores in BC, they also may own bakeries, and food wholesalers controlling even larger parts of the food market.

Then there is Wal-Mart and Costco the only real competition to the above, but Costco being members only, and limited locations is more in its own space along with Loblaws owned Wholesale Club.

There was a bread price fixing scandal a few years back, I think I got a $20 check as compensation or was it a gift card, I forget.

Cell phones and airlines really no competition there either on a widescale.
I thought you were pulling my leg re cheese smuggling until I Googled it! I read somewhere about the cost of internal flights and how it is cheaper to fly from Manchester to Tenerife (Ryanair etc) than it is from Vancouver to Kelowna.

Originally Posted by BristolUK
Yes, but it's really not difficult. Much depends if you have access to different stores - is there one near your doctor or dentist or maybe there's one close to where you work/spouse works. Is there one on the way home from somewhere or two rival stores 5 minutes apart. There might be a restaurant you discover you like and maybe there's a different supermarket close by. Where I am, the cinema complexes are in the same commercial centres as three different supermarket rivals; see a movie and pop in for the one or two things half the cost of where you'd normally shop.

Don't ignore the big pharmacy chains that may appear expensive but they have their deals too. Milk, bread, cereals, pop and dairy stuff is often cheaper there.

Once you get used to how often you can buy stuff for half or less its normal cost, buy a few at the lower prices and bung them in your freezer. Buy cheap chickens 'this week' but buy your beef 'next week'...that sort of thing. If you're aware that your favoured steak is $7 lb instead of its usual $20 in a branch you wouldn't normally use, maybe there's a nearby liquor store to justify doing both.

I've always reckoned to save 30-40% this way.
I must put 'chest freezer' on my list of essential items then :-)

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
I don't know of commercial shipments of goods follow the same pattern, but I notice with consumer deliveries since living in Kelowna, that nearly everything goes to Vancouver first, then back tracks east into the interior after being sorted in Vancouver area. Only courier that doesn't seem to do this is Purolator where parcels stop in Calgary then come to Kelowna from there.

I guess its more efficient in the long run for these companies to do the sort in Vancouver just in a way seems like a waste of time and energy for parcels to have to back track hundreds of kilometers.

I just wonder if groceries are doing the same, everything goes to the warehouses in Vancouver then sorted, picked and loaded to send back out to the rest of the province.
I guess there are more resources to sort shipments (air/freight/port) in Vancouver than anywhere else on the West coast? Would make a lot of sense but not good for the carbon footprint!

Last edited by mdonald1987; Jan 5th 2021 at 7:53 am. Reason: I don't know my East from West!
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 8:07 am
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Default Re: Groceries

Originally Posted by mdonald1987
I must put 'chest freezer' on my list of essential items then :-)
Oh dear...I read that as cheese freezer

Danby ones are quite good and not too much. I got one from Home Depot. Paid for it arranged delivery, cycled home and it was already in the house when I got there.
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 8:17 am
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Originally Posted by mdonald1987
I thought you were pulling my leg re cheese smuggling until I Googled it! I read somewhere about the cost of internal flights and how it is cheaper to fly from Manchester to Tenerife (Ryanair etc) than it is from Vancouver to Kelowna.

I guess there are more resources to sort shipments (air/freight/port) in Vancouver than anywhere else on the West coast? Would make a lot of sense but not good for the carbon footprint!
Yes about resources in Vancouver area its where the port is, where the companies all do their sorting, close to the only major airport in BC, close to the border etc. And plus 50% of the BC population roughly lives within the Lower Mainland.

(I say Vancouver area as most of these places are not actually in Vancouver but suburbs surrounding Vancouver, Richmond, Delta, Coquitlam, Burnaby, even the airport isn't actually in Vancouver.)

I've never flown within Canada due to the high cost. I can fly to California cheaper than I can fly across to Victoria, BC or Kelowna, in normal times not unusual to see fares to various destinations in Asia at the same fare to Toronto. But there is actually competition on Canada-Asia route where its basically a duopoly on the Vancouver to Toronto route.
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