Germanwings Flight
Mar 31st 2015, 8:18 pm
#91
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: Germanwings Flight
I freaking LOVE Mayday. It is one of my fave programmes.
Mar 31st 2015, 8:33 pm
#92
Nuther day in paradise.ca
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Ajax, Ontario
Posts: 7,263
Mar 31st 2015, 9:10 pm
#93
Professional Cat herder
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: TORONTO- yay!!!
Posts: 5,707
Mar 31st 2015, 9:34 pm
#94
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Mar 31st 2015, 10:20 pm
#95
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,755
Re: Germanwings Flight
I used to have something similar but smaller scale.
I played the violin at school and my mum used to sing in an amateur opera company. Us kids got taken to performances and I had this fantasy that one of the violinists in the orchestra would be missing and I'd get called in as replacement.
Mar 31st 2015, 10:26 pm
#96
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Posts: 4,104
Apr 1st 2015, 1:09 am
#97
Concierge
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Oakville, ON, CA
Posts: 8,320
Re: Germanwings Flight
That must surely be a very short episode.
Voiceover 1: "Where is MH 370?"
Pundit: "erm, we don't know."
Voiceover 1: "What led to the incident?"
Pundit: "erm, we don't know."
Voiceover 1: "What about the state of mind of the pilots?"
Pundit: "erm, we don't know."
Voiceover 1: "Ah, I see. Goodbye."
Voiceover 1: "Where is MH 370?"
Pundit: "erm, we don't know."
Voiceover 1: "What led to the incident?"
Pundit: "erm, we don't know."
Voiceover 1: "What about the state of mind of the pilots?"
Pundit: "erm, we don't know."
Voiceover 1: "Ah, I see. Goodbye."
Apr 1st 2015, 5:29 am
#98
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Posts: 4,104
Re: Germanwings Flight
Yeah, it was an interesting show. Unfortunately, it increasingly looks like the only theory that does make sense is that someone did it deliberately, be it the crew or someone else who managed to get control.
Apr 1st 2015, 6:25 am
#99
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Germanwings Flight
That is to hold an ATPL, a commercial license is as in Canada, 200 hours, extra to get multi/ifr.
Getting hired and hours requirement depends where one comes from. If it is from within the carriers own training program, hours are lower. For new hires outside the program, jobs are hard to come by, military are preferred. Under 3000 hours is not much of a chance getting into a major carrier. Many start off with commuter carriers on min wage. I know of a guy went to Cathay with a few hundred hours.
Carriers will lower the experience requirement over the coming years as the pool of pilots diminishes, retirements exceed the pilot pool.
The number of hours has nothing to do with a pilots mental state or competence once in the front seat. There are numerous tests before getting a job as a line pilot, plus type rating requirements on top of the license, sim checks, line checks and so on. If a pilot makes it as a line pilot with 600 hours, they would still meet the required standard.
Experience can be total time (hours flown since ab initio) and time on type will be a lot less than TT, plus others. I don't know the history of Lubitz, if the 630 hours is TT or ToT. Seven years flying, 600 hours TT is not a lot. A commercial pilot duty hours in Canada:
1,200 hours in any consecutive 365 days
300 hours in any 90 consecutive days
120 hours in any 30 consecutive days
40 hours in any 7 consecutive days
Getting hired and hours requirement depends where one comes from. If it is from within the carriers own training program, hours are lower. For new hires outside the program, jobs are hard to come by, military are preferred. Under 3000 hours is not much of a chance getting into a major carrier. Many start off with commuter carriers on min wage. I know of a guy went to Cathay with a few hundred hours.
Carriers will lower the experience requirement over the coming years as the pool of pilots diminishes, retirements exceed the pilot pool.
The number of hours has nothing to do with a pilots mental state or competence once in the front seat. There are numerous tests before getting a job as a line pilot, plus type rating requirements on top of the license, sim checks, line checks and so on. If a pilot makes it as a line pilot with 600 hours, they would still meet the required standard.
Experience can be total time (hours flown since ab initio) and time on type will be a lot less than TT, plus others. I don't know the history of Lubitz, if the 630 hours is TT or ToT. Seven years flying, 600 hours TT is not a lot. A commercial pilot duty hours in Canada:
1,200 hours in any consecutive 365 days
300 hours in any 90 consecutive days
120 hours in any 30 consecutive days
40 hours in any 7 consecutive days
The media is reporting the 630 hours as his total time, not time on type, but who knows what the media knows these days...lol
I just found the total time really low compared to the majors in the US. (excluding all the regional who used to hire low time.)
I should have phrased the 1,500 hours the US requires, it's for commercial airline pilots flying for part 121 carriers. The FAA requires First Officers to have an ATP now, where previously they did not.
Not sure how it will all work out if/when a pilot shortage hits the US, but there are some exemptions in the rules.
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Apr 1st 2015 at 6:27 am.
Apr 1st 2015, 1:02 pm
#100
Slightly Canadian
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 10,128
Re: Germanwings Flight
Now, as a pilot you'd have a leg up on those of us who last flew a 737 on a BBC B Micro flight sim in 1987, but one imagines there is quite a difference from a Cessna to a 737. (Or Airbus).
I do have similar daydreams about being on various boats/ferries/ships and the same thing happening. I suspect I could drive a ship reasonably well.
EDIT: Mythbusters bit here:
Last edited by Atlantic Xpat; Apr 1st 2015 at 1:19 pm. Reason: Added youtube link
Apr 1st 2015, 1:20 pm
#101
Professional Cat herder
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: TORONTO- yay!!!
Posts: 5,707
Re: Germanwings Flight
I have some recollection that Mythbusters did piece on putting an untrained person into a simulator of a passenger jet & seeing whether they could land it or not. Not was the operative word as they crashed it all of the time. Now, as a pilot you'd have a leg up on those of us who last flew a 737 on a BBC B Micro flight sim in 1987, but one imagines there is quite a difference from a Cessna to a 737. (Or Airbus).
I do have similar daydreams about being on various boats/ferries/ships and the same thing happening. I suspect I could drive a ship reasonably well.
Now, as a pilot you'd have a leg up on those of us who last flew a 737 on a BBC B Micro flight sim in 1987, but one imagines there is quite a difference from a Cessna to a 737. (Or Airbus).I do have similar daydreams about being on various boats/ferries/ships and the same thing happening. I suspect I could drive a ship reasonably well.
we started talking about if we could fly a large jet, then it went to "well we could operate the radio and get instructions as to what buttons to press to turn on the autoland"
then most of us realised that the chances of us being able to figure out even the comms panel were fairly slim!
Apr 1st 2015, 1:51 pm
#102
Stand-up Philosopher
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Regina Saskatchewan
Posts: 16,344
Re: Germanwings Flight
I had a cousin who was a life long aviator (fighter pilot, test pilot, airline pilot, F1 air racer, "bird dog" for water bombers, crop sprayer etc - flew everything, and he said that flying clubs really hate renting planes to commercial airline pilots because they always bring them down hard. I suppose it's the same principle as a bus driver or truck driver switching to a sports car. This was his F1 plane. When he got cancer the government took away his pilot's license; the official explanation was that his tear ducts could be affected but he said they probably didn't trust him not to crash on purpose. He performed the first aerial intercept of a Bear-H bomber with an F-18 and wrote the NORAD training syllabus on how to do that and he was deeply hurt by the lack of trust that they showed by not letting him fly again. Before he became too ill to make the trip a friend doing a cross-Canada flight in an open cockpit biplane invited him along and let him fly anyway.
Apr 1st 2015, 2:47 pm
#103
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,755
Re: Germanwings Flight
I have daydreams of being the hero who rushes forward when the inevitable " can anyone fly a plane" plea goes out over the intercom.....
we started talking about if we could fly a large jet, then it went to "well we could operate the radio and get instructions as to what buttons to press to turn on the autoland"then most of us realised that the chances of us being able to figure out even the comms panel were fairly slim!
we started talking about if we could fly a large jet, then it went to "well we could operate the radio and get instructions as to what buttons to press to turn on the autoland"then most of us realised that the chances of us being able to figure out even the comms panel were fairly slim!
Apr 1st 2015, 7:40 pm
#104
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,830
Re: Germanwings Flight
FAA rules came out in 2013, so not as a result of this crash. It is not a clear cut 1500 hours though for FO (is for captain), a FO can hold a restricted ATP with type rating and 2nd class medical. In Canada and Europe all commercial pilots are required to have a class 1.
Apr 1st 2015, 9:04 pm
#105
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Germanwings Flight
Major carriers would require a FO to have a ATP or frozen ATP before hiring. That has been for as long as I can remember.
FAA rules came out in 2013, so not as a result of this crash. It is not a clear cut 1500 hours though for FO (is for captain), a FO can hold a restricted ATP with type rating and 2nd class medical. In Canada and Europe all commercial pilots are required to have a class 1.
FAA rules came out in 2013, so not as a result of this crash. It is not a clear cut 1500 hours though for FO (is for captain), a FO can hold a restricted ATP with type rating and 2nd class medical. In Canada and Europe all commercial pilots are required to have a class 1.
