scrubbedexpat091

Discovery is showing some new episodes of Mayday, not sure where to find them online though if they are online yet. They recently had one on the Malaysia flight from last year, but I missed that one, so not sure how they did that episode since they nobody really knows what happened.

Mayday has been in for several years and have profiled a lot of accidents, some are quite interesting.

MarkG

One time my flight from Calgary to London was cancelled and I got rescheduled for the next day, and, with only a few hours to spare between getting up and flying out, the most interesting thing I could find to do in the hotel was watching air crash investigation documentaries.

My girlfriend said that was weird... but it was probably useful when I got called in to provide technical assistance to one a few years later.

scrubbedexpat091

The pilot was apparently treated for suicidal depression before he even started flight training as well as being treated during flight training.

One wonders how this guy slipped through the system.

Insurance companies involved have set aside 300 million for future compensation.


Do pilots in Europe not need as much experience?

BBC says he had 630 total hours, seems a bit low based on what US airlines require, not sure what Canadian airlines do.

"Lufthansa said Mr Lubitz had flown a total of 630 hours before Tuesday's fatal crash."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32072220

SchnookoLoly

I don't know the number of training hours, but the niece of a very good friend of mine is training to be a pilot with Air Canada, and she's told me that Nav Canada has some of the strictest requirements for licensing commercial pilots of any country. She's currently doing her training and certification up in Yellowknife because it's one of the few places that actually has space for prospective pilots to get all of their practice and training hours in, since they have so many to accumulate.

Zoe Bell

just as a pedantic point Nav Canada don't have anything to do with licensing pilots.
that would be Transport Canada

SchnookoLoly

My mistake. Don't know why I wrote Nav Canada. I think because I read it further up. I am half asleep.

JamesM

The other pilot who was locked out was actually the captain. He had much more experience.

JamesM

That's no reassurance.

Why can't they have all of the strictest requirements instead of just some of them.

I don't want to know about the ones they have slacked off on as I am scheduled to board a plane on Thursday.

Oakvillian

An interesting comment I heard this morning (and I haven't had a chance to look up the numbers yet to verify)...

The total number of people killed as a result of flight crew being locked out of the cockpit by suicidal colleagues is apparently greater than the number of people killed on board aircraft by terrorist or hijack incident since, and including, 9/11 (not including, of course, fatalities on the ground).

Would we all be safer if the doors were unlocked again? With perfect hindsight, it does seem to have been a rather spectacular own-goal to have introduced a single point of failure for onboard security. This pilot, in particular, seems to have deliberately taken advantage (if that's the right phrase) of the security procedures to give himself the means and the opportunity to drive his plane into a mountain.

scrubbedexpat091

I know that. US airlines of which I am most familiar with, just require quite a bit more, just found it odd an airline would have one with so few hours.

Example:

Delta minimums:

Flight Time Requirements
Minimum of 1,500 hours of total documented flight time.
Minimum of 1,000 hours of fixed wing turboprop or turbofan time.

Virgin America

2,500 hours fixed wing total time in airplanes (excluded: Helo, Sim, F/E time) with 1,000 hours pic in turbine or jet aircraft preferred.

Air Canada

1500 hours of fixed wing flying time

It appears the FAA now requires a minimum of 1,500 hours.

The US airlines numbers are min. required to get hired, but you won't get hired with just the minimum too much competition, but may get hired at a regional with the min, 1,500 total hours like Mesa flying the mini-planes.

Was just surprised to see a A320 f/o with only 630 hours.

Zoe Bell

This is a very valid point, the cockpit door rules were a knee jerk reaction to September 11th.

Now I fear we are going to have another knee jerk reaction to this latest incident.

In my opinion the aviation industry used to be pretty good at working through what the actual implications of a change in procedure/design before implementing it.

They were often accused of being slow but in general things were carefully considered and researched before implementation.

Now it seems that the word "Terrorism" is basically a catch all for "we'll do whatever we like"

want to take more than 500ml of water on board - can't because TERRORISM

want to get on board without being groped or exposed to varying degrees of type of radiation - can't because TERRORISM!

want someone to be able to get in the cockpit in case there's an issue - can't because TERRORISM!

when you look at it , The September 11th attacks were incredibly successful in what they achieved. The sad fact is they needn't have been.

Aviator

That is to hold an ATPL, a commercial license is as in Canada, 200 hours, extra to get multi/ifr.

Getting hired and hours requirement depends where one comes from. If it is from within the carriers own training program, hours are lower. For new hires outside the program, jobs are hard to come by, military are preferred. Under 3000 hours is not much of a chance getting into a major carrier. Many start off with commuter carriers on min wage. I know of a guy went to Cathay with a few hundred hours.

Carriers will lower the experience requirement over the coming years as the pool of pilots diminishes, retirements exceed the pilot pool.

The number of hours has nothing to do with a pilots mental state or competence once in the front seat. There are numerous tests before getting a job as a line pilot, plus type rating requirements on top of the license, sim checks, line checks and so on. If a pilot makes it as a line pilot with 600 hours, they would still meet the required standard.

Experience can be total time (hours flown since ab initio) and time on type will be a lot less than TT, plus others. I don't know the history of Lubitz, if the 630 hours is TT or ToT. Seven years flying, 600 hours TT is not a lot. A commercial pilot duty hours in Canada:

1,200 hours in any consecutive 365 days
300 hours in any 90 consecutive days
120 hours in any 30 consecutive days
40 hours in any 7 consecutive days

BristolUK

On the other hand, it appears there has been a rise in terrorist attacks. Much smaller incidents maybe, but then if your chances of hijacking a plane and flying it into a building have been reduced, then you lower your expectations and stick to mini massacres in Malls, offices, streets and cafes.

Imagine if every nutter responsible for the relatively minor stuff had tried to get into a cockpit. Perhaps it has worked as a deterrent?

SchnookoLoly

I have been watching MayDay all day. You people have ruined me.

The MH370 special episode is on right now.

Oakvillian

That must surely be a very short episode.
Voiceover 1: "Where is MH 370?"
Pundit: "erm, we don't know."
Voiceover 1: "What led to the incident?"
Pundit: "erm, we don't know."
Voiceover 1: "What about the state of mind of the pilots?"
Pundit: "erm, we don't know."
Voiceover 1: "Ah, I see. Goodbye."