European Elections
 

I did a search on nazi scum but nothing came up.

So, what do we think about our countrymen and women / ex-countrymen and women electing a couple of BNPers to represent the UK in the European Parliament.

Can you imagine it ever happening in Canada.

Re: European Elections
 

Sure, Jason Kenney has already been elected.

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It's a democracy and the electorate have spoken - what more is there to say?

You may not like their policies but then, by voting for one party, aren't you rejecting the policies of the other parties?

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So was Rob Anders

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(a) It's shameful.
(b) Yes.

All it takes is ignorance, moral relativity and unscrupulous politicians manipulating self-interest. Oh and proportional representation distorting the result.

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Just before I came over I said it wouldn't be long before the BNP started getting a foothold in the politics of the UK. The recession has only gone and strengthened their campaign.

It's a really sensitive subject and I am not a supporter of the BNP but due to how the UK is run right now it makes sense that they are gaining a lot of voters. Is it good for the Country? Yes I believe it is. Is it good for the Countries representation of itself? Not one bit.

I am personally interested to know your views of the BNP I can take a guess by the way you worded the question that you are not overly keen on them, I support that view but at the same time I really do think that having a balance of government is ultimately more important than having a good majority government.

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Steady on. It's only a European election and, according to the BBC this morning, they got less votes in the well publicised constituencies than at the last European election. It's just a protest vote, the Canadian parliament still contains more hard right nutters than the British one.

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Racist scum who are hiding their true identity...........if people really want to support a party that promotes Englishness without voting for a holocaust denier then they should vote for the English Democrats who are still nuts but at least they are not Nazi's.

Personally I don't believe Democracy works as the majority of people do not necessarily follow politics and the policies of the parties they vote for, they either vote for who their parents voted for or vote for 'the other lot' as they become bored with the ruling party.

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As odious an individual Kenney may be, even he might find these a bit over the top:

Nick Griffin

On Race: "Without the White race nothing matters [other right-wing parties] believe that the answer to the race question is integration and a futile attempt to create "Black Britons", while we affirm that non-Whites have no place here at all and will not rest until every last one has left our land."

On Nazi leader Adolf Hitler: 'Yes, Adolf went a bit too far. His legacy is the biggest problem that the British nationalist movement has to deal with. It just creates a bad image."

On Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler's autobiography: "At 13, I read Mein Kampf, making notes in the margins… I remember thinking, are the Jews really that bad? The chapter I most enjoyed was the one on propaganda and organisation there are some really useful ideas there."

On democracy: “[BNP voters backed] what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan ‘Defend Rights for Whites’ with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate.”

On the Holocaust:

“I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into lamp shades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the earth is flat … I have reached the conclusion that the ‘extermination’ tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie and latter witch-hysteria. It's well known that the chimneys from the gas chambers at Auschwitz are fake, built after the war ended."

On Sir Oswald Mosley, leader of the British Union of Fascists: "'There is a strong, direct link from Oswald Mosley to me."

On the Soho pub bombings: “The TV footage of dozens of ‘gay’ demonstrators flaunting their perversions in front of the world’s journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures so repulsive.”

On why the two countries that sponsored terrorism should be supported: “Common interest must be turned into practical cooperation. Those involved must work to nail the media lies which are used by our enemies to try to divide us and make us afraid to be seen standing side by side with Third Way nations such as Libya and Iran.”

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So what alternative then?

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Journalist Sarah Ditum writes coherently on the subject- here.

Can it happen here? Yes, it can happen anywhere. Maybe the elections to the EU parliament will stop the complacency that lets this happen, and people will go out and vote in the next general election.

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Living in North Korea?

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That's the problem - fewer votes but because of the low turnout it resulted in two seats. Personally I am against extremists wherever they fall on the spectrum. I'm not sure the BNP qualifies as 'nazi' but they are appealing to the ignorant underclass who think all their problems can be attributed to 'incomers' of various hues. As for hard-right nutters in Canada - which is the party that says you can only join if you are white?

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I was told by Chris Vâ–¬ (workmate) that Harper was once the leader of a particularly nasty fascist-styled party here in Canada. I now believe him after seeing the photographic evidence.

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I'm not aware of any such party but I put it to you that two Canadian MPs have been named on this thread who are to the right of anyone in the British parliament.

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I don't think that is their only target, I think there are more voters for the BNP because of issues like the EU and subsequent consequences to the country.

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BNP have got less votes than before because of the low turnout it looks like they have done better than they actually have.
It was a protest vote and I know no one who likes them...they are no worries.

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In electoral terms, nothing much. As long as they can stay on side of the incitement laws they have just as much right to organize and participate in the electoral process as anyone else. It is a clear warning to the problems inherent in proportional representation.

As to what can be done to halt the slide into extremist politics I don't think I have the answer. With the current bunch I think exposing them to public attention - appearances on Question Time for example - would help many people see them for what they are. The trouble is that would backfire if they ever got an intelligent and skillful rabble rouser for a leader.

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Well but that's unlikely isn't it? Anyone intelligent realises that fascism is discredited and outmoded.

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And why is that a bad thing?

Surely, in a democracy, people may vote for whoever is on the ballet card. If that means that the person you didn't vote for wins, why does that mean that you are right and they were wrong?

I have never voted in my life and I never intend to. It never ceases to amaze me how those (that tend to be east of Alberta) constently criticise the governing party in Canada, claiming that all their supporters are too "right wing".

They may be too right wing for liberal supporters, but what makes the liberals correct and the right wing supporters wrong?

It seems that democracy is OK to liberals, provided they always win.

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For how long has being able to demonstrate "intelligence" been a requirement to vote in England?

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Or in Canada for that matter !!!!!!

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Indeed, there is no-one more sanctimonious. But these days the ideological differences between conservatives and liberals are too few to notice. At least in the UK, David Cameron has occupied the same middle ground as Tony Blair, so they are almost indistinguishable from each other. I don't know enough about the Canadian parties to offer an opinion.

All the same for those with a rose-tinted view of British socialism (I include the Labour Party in this broad definition) I recommend Nick Cohen's "What's Left" to debunk any romantic notions of leftist, liberal purity of thought.

Never, I believe. It used to be about class and money. Oh... and still is.

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I didn't say that it is a bad thing. I'm suggesting the presence of frothing loons in the Canadian parliament hasn't brought the country down and so a small vote for similar characters in the UK need not be cause for panic.

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I am with you on that one:thumbsup:

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I thought that Blair aped the Tories prior to 1997 as, to do otherwise, meant that Labour were unelectable.

Really, I thought one was entitled to vote irrespective of class and money in England (excepting all those in jail). Please explain.

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But who can you vote for?

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Or Australia.:lol:

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I spoke to a few people who were voting UKIP because they would "get us out of Europe", when asked why we should be out of Europe the answers got a bit thinner - unelected bureaucrats, too many laws, should be trade only, immigration & Turkish and so on - nothing very coherent and mostly tinged with a little xenophobia (i.e. none could list any unelected bureaucrats, some mentioned weighing in lbs and ounces etc).

UKIP and BNP seem mostly a poorly considered protest vote sparked by MP's expenses etc, I wonder why the Torygraph didn't hold off on the Tory moats and duck houses until after the election?

I am not sure any government, regardless of flavor, can last longer than 10-12 years before they have annoyed enough of the electorate over something - people (esp brits) tend to remember the one thing they didn't agree with rather than the half a dozen they did, when it comes to voting time.

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Uh, the BNP are far _left_: what I've read of their policies wouldn't have been out of place in a Labour manifesto forty years ago.

They're sucking up disaffected Labour voters... disaffected Tories vote UKIP.

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If your argument is that extremist parties eventually meet, I've some sympathy for that but the BNP derive from the National Front, their past is with Martin "Sweetie" Webster, not with any form of leftist party.

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I don't disagree: first Blair moved right, now Cameron moves left, the result is occupation of the centre-ground with similar policies. Labour taxes more and spends more but services don't noticeably improve. The Conservatives cut taxes and spend less and services noticeably suffer.


I wasn't referring to enfranchisement - but to the fact that the spectrum of political ideas in Britain has more to do with trying to 'equalise' a society still divided along quasi-feudal lines and distribute wealth differently.

Simplistic I know, but in essence Labour try to negate the advantages of the aristos and bourgeois by favouring the 'workers' and underclass; the Conservatives are less kind to those on the bottom of the pile while deregulating to ensure those at the top continue to make kazillions.

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Try listening to Nick Griffin's victory speech. It sounded like Labour in 1983. Norman Tebbit describes them as old Labour with racism, which seems to fit pretty well.

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I assume you accept that the National Front was a far right, one might say a neo-Nazi, party. I assume you accept that the prominent members of the BNP were, in the past, members of the NF. I suggest that, far from being a leftist party, the BNP have adopted a socialist cloak in order to cultivate the masses; what poor man does not want wealth redistributed to him? I think it's a gimmick, a popularist stunt, and they have no ideological commitment to socialism.

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Apparently, Nick Griffin was egged while giving a news conference outside the Houses of Parliament. He was unhurt, but was distressed that no one had separated the whites.

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:rofl:

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boom tish