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-   -   Do you have backup heat source? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/do-you-have-backup-heat-source-889958/)

macadian Jan 11th 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 12149587)
I looked at them today but the ones at HD and Lowes are too fragile and a serious one is about US$500 for an hour's function and US$250/hour after that. We'd want support for about 8 hours and, at that price point, an automatic generator is an option.

It's always the balance of probabilities, a power outage that starts mid-morning on a weekday and goes for several hours is our exposure and, in truth, that happens no more than half a dozen times a year. If one of those times coincides with a melting phase then we'll have a flood but most outages start at night and we're here to fire up the generator. I can't see a UPS for the sump pump ever coming to the top of the shopping list.

Seems that given your situation a fully automatic emergency generator is your only option, unfortunately a somewhat expensive option.

rivingtonpike Jan 11th 2017 2:52 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 
We have a rather splendid insert wood burner in our fireplace, but the fan associated with it is hydro driven. Likewise our oil fired forced air furnace is - i'm pretty sure - hydro driven (pilot light etc). I have been considering a backup generator for a while. Anyone know a good one? Not crazy expensive as would be in the garage or outhouse so doesn't need to be particularly quiet, I guess just powerful

bats Jan 11th 2017 3:06 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 
We have a gas stove which replaced a wood stove. We've a back up generator which we've only had to use a few times thankfully. Don't really need it for heat but the septic has a pump.

macadian Jan 11th 2017 3:33 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 

Originally Posted by rivingtonpike (Post 12149609)
We have a rather splendid insert wood burner in our fireplace, but the fan associated with it is hydro driven. Likewise our oil fired forced air furnace is - i'm pretty sure - hydro driven (pilot light etc). I have been considering a backup generator for a while. Anyone know a good one? Not crazy expensive as would be in the garage or outhouse so doesn't need to be particularly quiet, I guess just powerful

Depends what you envisage running off the generator. For example, will you require to run say, a well pump for water which would require a capability of 220V/30 amp output. Would you hook it to a generator breaker panel and transfer switch? If not and would simply run an extension cable to run a a sump pump, furnace, freezer etc, then something around 2500 to 3500kw output (120V) would likely do for you. Cost around $600 or so. Suggest you speak with an electrician with regards to what your expectations are and take it from there.

dave_j Jan 11th 2017 3:58 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 

Originally Posted by macadian (Post 12149622)
Depends what you envisage running off the generator. For example, will you require to run say, a well pump for water which would require a capability of 220V/30 amp output. Would you hook it to a generator breaker panel and transfer switch? If not and would simply run an extension cable to run a a sump pump, furnace, freezer etc, then something around 2500 to 3500kw output (120V) would likely do for you. Cost around $600 or so. Suggest you speak with an electrician with regards to what your expectations are and take it from there.

We have a very simple setup.
A 3kw generator stored in garage but moved outside under shelter when needed. Connects to two inbuilt extension cables that feed sockets built into wall next to existing sockets next to furnace and other next to TV/internet in living area. When needed ,fire up generator, connect to cables and change plugs from mains to cables. Very cheap and practical. Eliminates any possibility of cross connection from mains to generator, both systems separate. Generator second hand cost $200.. no tax. Has enough oommph to service furnace, entertainment and microwave/coffee maker.
Daughter has 8kw connected to transfer switch panel. Very good but quite expensive, but does service most of house.

Piff Poff Jan 11th 2017 4:14 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 
Our heat went out overnight, the cause was the battery failing on the programmer. I was worried for my heat sensitive animals. We have an electric fan heater in the bedroom and a generator that's never been out of the box. On the shopping list is hardwares for the animals if this happens again. If it's long term, we'll be off to a hotel!

scrubbedexpat091 Jan 11th 2017 4:41 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 

Originally Posted by Piff Poff (Post 12149636)
Our heat went out overnight, the cause was the battery failing on the programmer. I was worried for my heat sensitive animals. We have an electric fan heater in the bedroom and a generator that's never been out of the box. On the shopping list is hardwares for the animals if this happens again. If it's long term, we'll be off to a hotel!

My cold blooded animal friends are my biggest worry. The gecko I could in most places just go to the car with him in a box and take a drive, but in this building whatever genius designed it they made it where if the power is out there is no access to the garage and cars.

The fish can't move them, water does take time to cool, but anything below 73F and things start to go south as the fish are from very warm regions with water temps pushing 80F.

If the place was insulted well, wouldn't be so bad, but turn off the heat and the temp drops pretty quickly.

paw339 Jan 11th 2017 4:43 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 

Originally Posted by dave_j (Post 12149632)
We have a very simple setup.
A 3kw generator stored in garage but moved outside under shelter when needed. Connects to two inbuilt extension cables that feed sockets built into wall next to existing sockets next to furnace and other next to TV/internet in living area. When needed ,fire up generator, connect to cables and change plugs from mains to cables. Very cheap and practical. Eliminates any possibility of cross connection from mains to generator, both systems separate. Generator second hand cost $200.. no tax. Has enough oommph to service furnace, entertainment and microwave/coffee maker.
Daughter has 8kw connected to transfer switch panel. Very good but quite expensive, but does service most of house.

We have a similar setup for our furnace and works well for us. We cut the power cable to the furnace and filled the gap with a plug and socket. If we have a power cut we can pull the furnace power plug out of the socket separating it completely from the house power supply and then plug it into an extension cable connected to a small cheap generator ( but not as cheap as $200 nice!).

Siouxie Jan 11th 2017 5:00 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12149641)
My cold blooded animal friends are my biggest worry. The gecko I could in most places just go to the car with him in a box and take a drive, but in this building whatever genius designed it they made it where if the power is out there is no access to the garage and cars.

The fish can't move them, water does take time to cool, but anything below 73F and things start to go south as the fish are from very warm regions with water temps pushing 80F.

If the place was insulted well, wouldn't be so bad, but turn off the heat and the temp drops pretty quickly.

Could you get one of those power packs for a back up for your aquarium, perhaps, and get a sheet of insulation that you could cut and put around the tank (stick it together with a bit of gorilla tape)?

MotoMaster Eliminator PowerBox® 600 | Canadian Tire

MotoMaster Eliminator PowerBox® 2000 | Canadian Tire <- has 3 outlets

paw339 Jan 11th 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 

Originally Posted by Siouxie (Post 12149646)
Could you get one of those power packs for a back up for your aquarium, perhaps?

MotoMaster Eliminator PowerBox® 600 | Canadian Tire

MotoMaster Eliminator PowerBox® 2000 | Canadian Tire <- has 3 outlets

These power boxes whilst very convenient don't usually provide a lot of total stored energy. A deep cycle battery or even a normal sealed car battery (for only very occasional use) with an inverter would probably work better and be cheaper.

scrubbedexpat091 Jan 11th 2017 5:34 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 

Originally Posted by paw339 (Post 12149650)
These power boxes whilst very convenient don't usually provide a lot of total stored energy. A deep cycle battery or even a normal sealed car battery (for only very occasional use) with an inverter would probably work better and be cheaper.

This?

https://www.costco.ca/Duracell-400-W...100230281.html

And would a car battery stay charged sitting in storage over time? Or I suppose we could buy a battery that fits our car and swap the battery out from time to time to keep it charged?

Unfortunately in a power outage we have no access to our car as there is no way into the garage without power.

The heater is 100 watts and the water pump around 4 watts. The heater doesn't run constant however, comes on and off as needed.

paw339 Jan 11th 2017 7:43 pm

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12149656)
This?

https://www.costco.ca/Duracell-400-W...100230281.html

And would a car battery stay charged sitting in storage over time? Or I suppose we could buy a battery that fits our car and swap the battery out from time to time to keep it charged?

Unfortunately in a power outage we have no access to our car as there is no way into the garage without power.

The heater is 100 watts and the water pump around 4 watts. The heater doesn't run constant however, comes on and off as needed.

That inverter would provide enough power. I'm not sure how long a battery would stay charged but practically over the long term you would probably really need a battery charge; ideally a "smart charger" that you could just leave connected and forget about until you need a charged battery. The first question you need to ask yourself is how long would you want to be able to run the heater and also would you want to be able to run a light or anything else etc off it as well? Once you have a rough idea of demand you can then try and calculate your battery needs. To give you an example a 100 watt heater running for 40% of the time would flatten a decent deep cycle battery in about a day.

Souvy Jan 12th 2017 12:21 am

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 12149572)
We have a gas furnace as back up to the woodstove. The furnace has fans and a thermostat which require electricity; that presents a problem as the power supply is unreliable (today, for example, it was out from 8 am to 1:30pm) and we don't have an automatic generator.

That said, lack of heat is a less pressing issue than lack of sump pump. At the time of year when the power is least reliable there's lots of melting snow and so a risk of flooding. Not an issue if someone is here but outages are worrisome on weekdays.

My stepson is in the same position.

He has a log burner in the basement (vented to the main floor) and lots of wood. He also has a sump pump and a well.

To compound problems, he's away a lot and for extended periods. A mate of his is keeping an eye on the place but you never know. Today would not be a good day for an outage. It's well above zero and raining.

I think I'll tell him to give his mate a nudge.

We should probably invest in a generator.

Zoe Bell Jan 12th 2017 12:44 am

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12149641)
My cold blooded animal friends are my biggest worry. The gecko I could in most places just go to the car with him in a box and take a drive, but in this building whatever genius designed it they made it where if the power is out there is no access to the garage and cars.

The fish can't move them, water does take time to cool, but anything below 73F and things start to go south as the fish are from very warm regions with water temps pushing 80F.

If the place was insulted well, wouldn't be so bad, but turn off the heat and the temp drops pretty quickly.

Wrapping a duvet around the tank also works. I worry more about needing to oxygenate the water,

I'm not sure how much / often to agitate the water

Souvy Jan 12th 2017 12:50 am

Re: Do you have backup heat source?
 
Look on the bright side. At least you'd have a food source in a prolonged power outage.


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