dbd33

I trust you learned them Spanish, so as to be ready for Athens.

morpeth

Hah good question- however government follows different rules than the private sector. Their measurement of productivity seems to be how to mislead the voters, better they are, the more they all make in the long run ! Their objectives are just different.

Paul_Shepherd

You appear to understand the point I was trying to make more than most. T -levels are good idea, I suppose that was like the old apprenticeships, and later YTS...although that was no where near as successful as many employers took advantage of young employees using them as cheap labour, but there were some success stories from it.

Thanks for our good wishes by the way, I am still trying very hard to obtain employment, however options are diversifying somewhat now, I have a number open to me at present I just need to decide which is the best path to take. Thats the tough part.

Paul_Shepherd

I think some posters have taken this education equating to earnings a little bit too generally, I think some knew the point I was trying to make…. Of course there are many factors that define how successful one will be or how much money they will earn during their careers, and anyone that has made a success of themselves through being an entrepreneur then good for them! I admire them. I still think it’s a natural talent to make it a real success.

My point in particular was about VOCATIONAL education which is taken alongside on the job training, not academic education as such, (although some academic qualifications are directly associated with a job and could be included in the point I am making) if someone commits to years of education/training then why shouldn’t they earn more than someone who couldn’t be bothered, even when such an opportunity was presented to them!?

In my early career days most companies that employed a young new employee would offer some sort of apprenticeship or training scheme along with a funded college education, this was usually part funded by the government. Many young people at the time would bail out as it was easier to take an unskilled job as it was offering more money (in the short term) and they didn’t want to put in the effort in obtaining a vocational education.

Why should they earn the same as someone who has put the work into learning a trade and the education that goes along with it.....do they get a raise too when the new minimum wage comes into effect?

Partially discharged

That is always the case...days/weeks/months of no responses and then 2 or 3 come in almost simultaneously and you have to decide on one job offer which is a nice problem to have.

DandNHill

But the waiting is cruel. Hubby is in the same boat. I think we’ve both reached a point where we don’t expect a reply 😢

Paul_Shepherd

Yes like buses!

These are options more so than jobs, Im looking at retraining options and relocating for work type option. Some options completely life changing... not decisions you can make lightly. Maybe the ghost of Christmas past will pay me visit and tell me which option to take!

Paul_Shepherd

Thats where I am at. Not even to interviews! which in my opinion is just plain rude!

caretaker

You don't even want to be my comrade any more. Everyone's labour is valuable, and until the needs of the poor are being met, the wealthy are overpaid. It's that bit about "Do they get a raise too?" The tradesman making twice as much or more as someone on minimum wage isn't going to be unable to afford to live from month to month, that's the difference.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr...ng_to_his_need

Paul_Shepherd

Everyone's labour is valuable but I don't think everyone should be paid the same.

caretaker

I think your expectations are guaranteed. Should someone working in a minimum wage job be paid enough to live? That's the question behind raising the minimum wage. Quality of life is directly related to crime, health costs, the well-being of society as a whole. Don't worry, I'm not for purging society of intellectuals.

morpeth

Good point the relationship between quality of life and a minimum standard of living. Senseless tax and government policies, and restrictions on freedom of enterprise certainly restrict economic growth of the economy- and overall real wages are just not enough in UK or USA- so why let the poor or working poor suffer from lack of economic growth ? I understand all the theoretical reasons for not increasing the minimum wage or eliminating it all together, but the reality is today I this economy there is a large class of working poor in both the UK and USA which imposes additional social and other external costs as you point out such that it might be a lot less expensive in the long run to up the minimum wage.

The government also has a role in all this beyond inane policies. I looked up on the HMRC site and there is a calculator of how one would benefit from work as opposed to the dole and housing benefit : it seems for many part or full time jobs the added benefit of working isn't that much, the benefits phase out to fast.

Milton Friedman had a great idea disliked by the left and the right, a negative income tax, and eliminate social welfare expenses. In the example he gave, ended up people would receive more in cash benefits state would spend less on social costs.

bats

https://youtu.be/Ds3rGOwVdqg

What's so good about democracy?

BristolUK

I don't remember seeing that. I must have been in the pub.

caretaker

As long as the recipients of tax incentives have to prove that they are creating economic growth before they benefit, otherwise it is just a present to the rich at the expense of the rest of the people.