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-   -   Coronavirus (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/coronavirus-930602/)

Jerseygirl Dec 3rd 2020 12:06 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12941504)
No swish and gargle test in Ontario?

So much easier, a little saline water, swish 5 seconds, gargle 5 seconds and repeat 3 times, spit and done.

surely you must have had the results of your test by now?

OrangeMango Dec 3rd 2020 12:48 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12942354)
It's amazing that there are so many Covidiots about at this stage of the second wave. I suppose those most likely breach the guidelines are most likely to be infected, and experience some impact.

What I am hoping for is that the vaccine will be mandatory and the legal obligation of each and every citizen and resident. Sadly there are a lot of people who disagree with this idea. I don't know if I would call them Covidiots.

I also disagree that the vaccine should be for free. If various governments are spending money on the research, the least one can do, is give back, pay for the vaccine, even if it's a small fee for 20 or 30 pounds or dollars.

scrubbedexpat099 Dec 3rd 2020 1:08 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Mayor of Austin now, he apologised so I guess that is ok.

https://www.statesman.com/news/20201...n-cabo-at-time

sharkus Dec 3rd 2020 2:30 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 12942388)
What I am hoping for is that the vaccine will be mandatory and the legal obligation of each and every citizen and resident. Sadly there are a lot of people who disagree with this idea. I don't know if I would call them Covidiots.

I also disagree that the vaccine should be for free. If various governments are spending money on the research, the least one can do, is give back, pay for the vaccine, even if it's a small fee for 20 or 30 pounds or dollars.

My concern with mandatory covid vaccination - at this point of time - is simply that we don't know if there are any long term issues post vaccination. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think there has - for obvious reasons - been long enough for any trials being run to figure out this kind of thing.
Sure, something that stops you getting covid is a good thing, and I do want to vaccinate myself against it to protect me, and others, I'm just worried.

As for "small fee for 20 or 30 pounds or dollars.", that might be a small amount to a lot of people, but to many, many people, that isn't a small sum.

Shard Dec 3rd 2020 2:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 12942388)
What I am hoping for is that the vaccine will be mandatory and the legal obligation of each and every citizen and resident. Sadly there are a lot of people who disagree with this idea. I don't know if I would call them Covidiots.

I also disagree that the vaccine should be for free. If various governments are spending money on the research, the least one can do, is give back, pay for the vaccine, even if it's a small fee for 20 or 30 pounds or dollars.

It's hard to make it mandatory, individuals ought to have a right on what is injected into them. However, serious incentives could be put in place, for example a so-called COvid passport meaning you're not allowed to enter certain public zones or use public transport without it. We don't need 100% vaccination to achieve herd immunity, around 70% with the remaining 30% widely distributed would be fairly effective. I think it should be free.

Siouxie Dec 3rd 2020 2:45 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 12942388)
What I am hoping for is that the vaccine will be mandatory and the legal obligation of each and every citizen and resident. Sadly there are a lot of people who disagree with this idea. I don't know if I would call them Covidiots.

I also disagree that the vaccine should be for free. If various governments are spending money on the research, the least one can do, is give back, pay for the vaccine, even if it's a small fee for 20 or 30 pounds or dollars.

Wouldn't that be the government over ruling citizen and human rights??

If everyone who wants to be vaccinated is vaccinated - why the worry - the ones that aren't vaccinated can't pass it onto the ones vaccinated.. or why would they get vaccinated if it offers no protection? :p


Revin Kevin Dec 3rd 2020 2:54 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 12941988)
England has come out of national lockdown (hooray!!) and entered into a Tiered phase. Those areas in Tier 1 (pink) will have many restrictions relaxed, but those areas in Tiers 2 (orange) and 3 red) remain in restrictions. But it's not a national lockdown, oh no!!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...934fc3ab28.jpg

I think it's odd that London (population 9.5 million) is not in Tier 3 while for example, the whole of Lincolnshire (population 750k) is!

Shard Dec 3rd 2020 2:56 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Revin Kevin (Post 12942463)
I think it's odd that London (population 9.5 million) is not in Tier 3 while for example, the whole of Lincolnshire (population 750k) is!

The tiering is done on infection rates, not population size ??

Revin Kevin Dec 3rd 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12942464)
The tiering is done on infection rates, not population size ??

Infection rates are just one of the factors that are used in the calculation. The point is why is a densely populated city like London considered safer than mostly rural Lincolnshire? We are told the best way to avoid transmission is to avoid other people so you not think that is even slightly counter intuitive ?

Siouxie Dec 3rd 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Revin Kevin (Post 12942463)
I think it's odd that London (population 9.5 million) is not in Tier 3 while for example, the whole of Lincolnshire (population 750k) is!

What about this then - RED tier!! There is no rhyme nor reason to how this has been set up... :D

Out of the population of 36,642 in Herne Bay, we can state that there are at least 2 reported cases of coronavirus. There are no deaths confirmed yet for this location, and there are no other coronavirus suspect cases as of today.
https://www.ovulation-calculators.co.../gb/herne-bay/
(put in any town to get the figures)

Shard Dec 3rd 2020 3:20 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Revin Kevin (Post 12942466)
Infection rates are just one of the factors that are used in the calculation. The point is why is a densely populated city like London considered safer than mostly rural Lincolnshire? We are told the best way to avoid transmission is to avoid other people so you not think that is even slightly counter intuitive ?

In that case you are arguing that Lincolnshire should be in T2 like London.

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 3rd 2020 7:18 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12942367)
surely you must have had the results of your test by now?

Yes. I got the results Tuesday evening. It was negative.

Still very under the weather though, so must be another bug.

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 3rd 2020 7:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12942354)
It's amazing that there are so many Covidiots about at this stage of the second wave. I suppose those most likely breach the guidelines are most likely to be infected, and experience some impact.

And elsewhere in BC, there is a family seeking out COVID + people to come live with them, so they can build their natural immunity. According to the ad placed, they tried it once before but failed to get sick and I am sure they are not alone in doing this, the anti-vaxx, natural immunity crowd have been known to do this with other diseases like chicken pox and measles rather than vaccinate.






Siouxie Dec 3rd 2020 7:45 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12942576)
And elsewhere in BC, there is a family seeking out COVID + people to come live with them, so they can build their natural immunity. According to the ad placed, they tried it once before but failed to get sick and I am sure they are not alone in doing this, the anti-vaxx, natural immunity crowd have been known to do this with other diseases like chicken pox and measles rather than vaccinate.

Go back to the 50's and 60's and we were all exposed deliberately to measles, chicken pox, german measles (rubella), scarlet fever, mumps, whooping cough and anything else other than polio or diptheria, LOL..

bats Dec 3rd 2020 9:23 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
The USA had 3157 deaths on wednesday, 200,070 new cases. Frightening numbers

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 4th 2020 1:35 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Siouxie (Post 12942580)
Go back to the 50's and 60's and we were all exposed deliberately to measles, chicken pox, german measles (rubella), scarlet fever, mumps, whooping cough and anything else other than polio or diptheria, LOL..


There is a reason we now prefer to vaccinate instead. ;)

I had most of those vaccines as a child, except chicken pox, the vaccine was not yet available, so I had to go through the suffering of chicken pox, I got it real bad, it was not fun, I am so glad I didn't have to experience measles and others.

And thankfully small pox was largely eradicated by the time I was born, (eradicated in US in 1972, and worldwide in 1980 something, I was born in 1979) and US had largely stopped doing routine small pox vaccination in 1972/1973 time frame.





scrubbedexpat091 Dec 4th 2020 2:29 am

Re: Coronavirus
 
If all goes to plan, BC hoping that everyone who wants the vaccine will have received it by Sept 2021.

""As long as the vaccine continues to come in, as long as the safety and the effectiveness is good … we hope to have everybody done by September of next year," Henry said."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...lout-1.5827905

Looks like they are aiming for the general population in April and will concentrate on high risk individuals first, including patients in LTC homes.

"By April, the number of available doses is expected to be high enough that vaccines will begin to be available more widely.
"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ec-3-1.5827466


Acute care beds are currently 87.8 per cent occupied which is actually an improvement over last year at this time when it was over 100%.

Danny B Dec 4th 2020 9:26 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
San Francisco Bay Area issues stay-at-home order for nearly 6 million people :ohmy:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...a-15774181.php

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 4th 2020 9:34 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 12942960)
San Francisco Bay Area issues stay-at-home order for nearly 6 million people :ohmy:

It's getting ugly in California at the moment it seems. And California didn't exactly ignore the virus and carry on like other states did, but its a losing battle when someone can fly to/from the careless states who did little. They haven't even let Disneyland open back up, it's been closed since March, and the city of Anaheim is on the brink of financial collapse as they rely very heavily on Disneyland for their tax revenue, and Disney is also the single largest employer in the city, + all the indirect jobs lost in surrounding hotels, restaurants, shuttles, and such.

My mom is getting a bit worried, she would rather not keep going to work (casino) and being around people coming and going from who knows where, but as it's on native land, state and county rules don't apply. But they do test employees 2 times per week.

I am actually kind of surprised between my mom working, my nephew working 2 public facing jobs, and her husband working in public facing job, that none of them have gotten sick. My mom is very high risk, chances are she would not recover, I have contemplated just going back this month to visit, as a just in case, but its probably too much risk at this point, but then if I drove, slept in the car, probably pretty low risk, but then hotels are likely not a good place to be right now there.....


Danny B Dec 4th 2020 10:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12942966)
It's getting ugly in California at the moment it seems. And California didn't exactly ignore the virus and carry on like other states did, but its a losing battle when someone can fly to/from the careless states who did little. They haven't even let Disneyland open back up, it's been closed since March, and the city of Anaheim is on the brink of financial collapse as they rely very heavily on Disneyland for their tax revenue, and Disney is also the single largest employer in the city, + all the indirect jobs lost in surrounding hotels, restaurants, shuttles, and such.

My mom is getting a bit worried, she would rather not keep going to work (casino) and being around people coming and going from who knows where, but as it's on native land, state and county rules don't apply. But they do test employees 2 times per week.

I am actually kind of surprised between my mom working, my nephew working 2 public facing jobs, and her husband working in public facing job, that none of them have gotten sick. My mom is very high risk, chances are she would not recover, I have contemplated just going back this month to visit, as a just in case, but its probably too much risk at this point, but then if I drove, slept in the car, probably pretty low risk, but then hotels are likely not a good place to be right now there.....

I had no idea that casinos on the 'reserve' were still open in California. I can't think of a worse place to be right now for high risk folk. There must be some really good safety protocols going on if people aren't getting sick. That is good news I guess.

That's a tough call regarding visiting your Mum. If I had the option of driving 17hrs to see my folks for a few days over Christmas, I'd be gone in a heart beat. I'm pretty healthy so I would take the risk of travelling down there but get tested before hugging them.

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 4th 2020 10:50 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 12942977)
I had no idea that casinos on the 'reserve' were still open in California. I can't think of a worse place to be right now for high risk folk. There must be some really good safety protocols going on if people aren't getting sick. That is good news I guess.

That's a tough call regarding visiting your Mum. If I had the option of driving 17hrs to see my folks for a few days over Christmas, I'd be gone in a heart beat. I'm pretty healthy so I would take the risk of travelling down there but get tested before hugging them.


My mom's casino is, can vary by tribe though as each tribe has differing rules and regulations.

The tribes are a nation within a state which is why the casinos can exist in a state where most forms of gambling is illegal.

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 4th 2020 11:29 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
BC as of today has had 492 deaths. March to September 4 there was a total of 211 deaths, Sept 5th until today 281 deaths.

11 more deaths today, 711 new cases. 338 in hospital up 37 from 1 week ago.

Still seeing a significant surge in community transmission and once again asking people to follow the health officers orders.

A survey done in BC (395,000 people surveyed.) found families with kids and adults 18-29 hardest hit socioeconomically.

While ages 70 and older hardest hit health-wise, younger adults and parents of young children reported the most severe economic, mental and emotional toll.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ases-1.5829303




OrangeMango Dec 5th 2020 6:31 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12942456)
It's hard to make it mandatory, individuals ought to have a right on what is injected into them. However, serious incentives could be put in place, for example a so-called COvid passport meaning you're not allowed to enter certain public zones or use public transport without it. We don't need 100% vaccination to achieve herd immunity, around 70% with the remaining 30% widely distributed would be fairly effective. I think it should be free.

I also think it should be agreed upon that in order to make the vaccination more popular incentives should be offered. The problem will also be, if there are no incentives nobody would take the vaccine. To me the most important incentive would be eliminating quarantine. However this kind of discussion hasn't even arrived in the minds of politicians and their so called "science based approaches". It'll be an interesting discussion where the "logic" will also differ greatly between country and country. For instance, I think the UK will probably respond to this more positively, and I am sure a country like Germany - because of the Nazi history - will certainly have a discussion on "discrimination" regarding individuals who refuse the vaccine.

Also looking at the number of deaths, I'd say any vaccine with a few side effects will be the better choice for more freedom and normalcy. Also when one thinks about past vaccine developments, like smallpox, the side effects were back then way worse and the vaccine was mandatory in many countries.

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 5th 2020 6:42 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
BC has already said it wont be mandatory, and hopefully enough will get the vaccine to make a difference.

OrangeMango Dec 5th 2020 6:50 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12943161)
BC has already said it wont be mandatory, and hopefully enough will get the vaccine to make a difference.

If there is the requirement to transport and store the vaccine at minus 70 degrees Celsius, one can easily guess that there is considerable cost attached to this activity, and vaccinating as many as possibly during a short period of time will certainly cut cost.

In the end, it will be more a distribution challenge than anything else. Same as hunger in the world, they say, it's not a matter of feeding the whole world, but distributing to the whole world.

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 5th 2020 7:34 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 12943167)
If there is the requirement to transport and store the vaccine at minus 70 degrees Celsius, one can easily guess that there is considerable cost attached to this activity, and vaccinating as many as possibly during a short period of time will certainly cut cost.

In the end, it will be more a distribution challenge than anything else. Same as hunger in the world, they say, it's not a matter of feeding the whole world, but distributing to the whole world.

Canada expects only 4 million Pfizer vaccines in the first 3 months, but between Pfizer and Moderna and others, they are hoping by September everyone who wanted a vaccine will have gotten it, but this relies on supplies not slowing down/stopping, or issues arising, so timeline is fluid.

BC plans to unveil its plans next week sometime on distributing it.

Easiest way would to set up centralized vaccine centers, wont require as difficult distribution, easier to send to central points than to who knows how many doctors offices and pharmacies.

My guess-

LTC residents & employees
Other healthcare workers
other high risk groups
general population adults


( i don't know if the vaccines are/will be approved for children or not)




OrangeMango Dec 5th 2020 7:41 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12943182)
Canada expects only 4 million Pfizer vaccines in the first 3 months, but between Pfizer and Moderna and others, they are hoping by September everyone who wanted a vaccine will have gotten it, but this relies on supplies not slowing down/stopping, or issues arising, so timeline is fluid.

BC plans to unveil its plans next week sometime on distributing it.

Easiest way would to set up centralized vaccine centers, wont require as difficult distribution, easier to send to central points than to who knows how many doctors offices and pharmacies.

My guess-

LTC residents & employees
Other healthcare workers
other high risk groups
general population adults


( i don't know if the vaccines are/will be approved for children or not)

I would sadly have to guess that any European country will do a better job than Canada on this, the UK and Germany most likely the best countries dealing with the vaccination programme. This in mind that supply doesn't run out and production and logistics are working smoothly. However I am aware that Canada has the vast landmass and the low population density to deal with which will be an unfair disadvantage from a logistical point of view.

Canada also doesn't have any production facilities known to me, that would mean the US would always be first on this. Maybe the National Research Council can produce, but I doubt that for the Covid 19 vaccine.

caretaker Dec 5th 2020 7:44 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Something that hasn't been discussed on here or on the news much recently is the possibility of the virus mutating and either rendering vaccines ineffective or less potent. I give it the same consideration I do for the annual flu shot; never mind and shoot me up anyway. At least I'll be doing what I can. Just as initial information about the virus kept changing and dictating changes in our response, I think we can expect more detours and roadblocks in the coming year. When a problem arises with the vaccine, science will work it out, and when a problem arises with the logistics of distribution and vaccination, the government will deal with it.

OrangeMango Dec 5th 2020 8:05 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by caretaker (Post 12943184)
I think we can expect more detours and roadblocks in the coming year. When a problem arises with the vaccine, science will work it out, and when a problem arises with the logistics of distribution and vaccination, the government will deal with it.

i am guessing that the vaccine won't solve things immediately. Strictly mathematically speaking the whole of the UK could be vaccinated by May, if supply and logistics and also manpower is there. I wouldn't worry so much about the mutation but other viruses, like MERS for instance. And I am sure, Canada will have another excuse for keeping the quarantine obligation alive through the whole year of 2021.

caretaker Dec 5th 2020 8:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by OrangeMango (Post 12943192)
And I am sure, Canada will have another excuse for keeping the quarantine obligation alive through the whole year of 2021.

That likely depends on whether or not healthcare facilities can cope or not. If Covid patients swamp ICU space and cause deaths due to other treatments being sidelined, as they are doing now, it will probably continue.

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 5th 2020 8:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by caretaker (Post 12943184)
Something that hasn't been discussed on here or on the news much recently is the possibility of the virus mutating and either rendering vaccines ineffective or less potent. I give it the same consideration I do for the annual flu shot; never mind and shoot me up anyway. At least I'll be doing what I can. Just as initial information about the virus kept changing and dictating changes in our response, I think we can expect more detours and roadblocks in the coming year. When a problem arises with the vaccine, science will work it out, and when a problem arises with the logistics of distribution and vaccination, the government will deal with it.

That will always be a concern mutating enough to render the vaccine ineffective, but I don't know if this virus mutates fast enough to outpace vaccines, but I guess we will be finding out.

Long term as well, how effective will it be, will it be a get it once vaccine, or will we need boosters, but I guess time will tell there as well.

I don't believe we will ever be COVID free at this point, but hopefully we can contain it enough to where it becomes less strain on healthcare systems and reduces deaths enough, but I don't think we will eradicate the virus at this point.

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 5th 2020 8:20 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by caretaker (Post 12943193)
That likely depends on whether or not healthcare facilities can cope or not. If Covid patients swamp ICU space and cause deaths due to other treatments being sidelined, as they are doing now, it will probably continue.

BC has had to move a few patients from Northern BC to Victoria to relive some pressure on facilities there.


caretaker Dec 5th 2020 8:33 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12943197)
BC has had to move a few patients from Northern BC to Victoria to relive some pressure on facilities there.

What about wait times for the other business hospitals were doing before this started? If someone dies because the wait time for their surgery or testing was extended because of Covid patients straining the system, I consider that a Covid related death. Same if they die because the hospital is understaffed. The nursing home my friend's mom is in had 54 of the 200 residents positive for the disease, and a quite a few of them are probably going to pass away when they might have otherwise had quite a few years left.
.

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 5th 2020 8:39 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by caretaker (Post 12943200)
What about wait times for the other business hospitals were doing before this started? If someone dies because the wait time for their surgery or testing was extended because of Covid patients straining the system, I consider that a Covid related death. Same if they die because the hospital is understaffed. The nursing home my friend's mom is in had 54 of the 200 residents positive for the disease, and a quite a few of them are probably going to pass away when they might have otherwise had quite a few years left.
.


Your not wrong. I don't know how backed up "elective" procedures are from the spring shut down, I know the province has pumped in some money and resources to try and catch up, but probably be a year or 2 before we really know the extend that shut down caused.

I did have to wait like 5 months for my CT scan, which was the longest I ever had to wait for one.


Mental health toll as well from the pandemic, and the system is ill-equipped to handle.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...mic-began.html

caretaker Dec 5th 2020 8:44 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12943203)
Mental health toll as well from the pandemic, and the system is ill-equipped to handle.

We had a real spate of overdose deaths in Regina, and the pandemic is the only thing to really blame for it. Some of those are suicides.

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 5th 2020 8:49 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by caretaker (Post 12943204)
We had a real spate of overdose deaths in Regina, and the pandemic is the only thing to really blame for it. Some of those are suicides.


Same in BC and lots of places in US and Canada, overdose deaths are quite high this year. How many were accidental vs intentional I have no idea, and 2020 suicide states wont be available until probably mid to late 2021, so we wont know for sure, but I would not be surprised if late 2020 sees an uptick in suicides.

1,386 overdose deaths as of end of November, likely higher now in BC. October 2020 was just about double October 2019, averaged 5 per day in October.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7483748/b...-october-2020/



caretaker Dec 5th 2020 9:02 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12943207)
1,386 overdose deaths as of end of November, likely higher now in BC. October 2020 was just about double October 2019, averaged 5 per day in October.

There's probably more hard drugs sold within 500 yards of here (excluding wholesale deals) on a daily basis than in the rest of the country combined, so it's an uphill battle from the start.

Pigeon Park in the DTES
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...5c23320b7d.jpg

scrubbedexpat091 Dec 5th 2020 9:21 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by caretaker (Post 12943208)
There's probably more hard drugs sold within 500 yards of here (excluding wholesale deals) on a daily basis than in the rest of the country combined, so it's an uphill battle from the start.

Pigeon Park in the DTES

No doubt there. Of anywhere I lived, Vancouver is probably the easiest place to find drugs if you desire. Just go there, ask anyone and under 5 minutes have what your looking for.

caretaker Dec 5th 2020 11:02 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
CBC's Fifth Estate just came on, and it's about migrant farm workers in Canada during the pandemic.

Shard Dec 6th 2020 9:50 am

Re: Coronavirus
 
Are Americans being hospitalized for Covid having to pay for any of the treatment?


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