Re: Coronavirus
 

:goodpost:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Are hospitals not coping a failure due to an inadequate system, or Covid itself - every year we get stories of no beds in hospitals, people left on trolleys in corridors for days- we shouldn't forget that, and shouldn't allow Covid to be the reasoning behind it - I also don't believe overwhelmed hospitals should be used as an excuse to shut the country down (not saying we should let them be overwhelmed, or that we should keep the country open, but hospitals at over capacity every winter has been a thing in the UK long before Covid) Only last year, my mother waited 2 days to get properly admitted to hospital, and a further 3 to get on a ward in the middle of summer.

My issue is and always has been we don't have true figures for anything - there's a big drive to get tested in my area, a big drive in tests is going to put case numbers up, many of which may not be active covid sufferers (people who had it in the summer showing a positive test for uptown 13 weeks etc) or simply be asymptomatic - not even going to go down the false positive route.

Death figures could be and were tweaked, current death figures are those testing positive within the 28 days preceding their death. Doesn't show co-morbidities, doesn't give an accurate cause of death. (go into hospital for a stroke, test positive or even catch covid within the hospital, then die of a UTI post stroke - your still in the Covid death totals, despite Covid having no bearing on your death. Likewise if your on palliative care approaching end of life, whether its Covid, flu, or organ failure - you are waiting for the straw to break the camels back, these deaths are still tragic, but border on unavoidable.

The flip side of this, is I believe the figures are open to manipulation down when the Government wants to save face -dropping 10k off the death tolls due to counting methods, but also restrict availability of testing in areas you want less positives, and suddenly you don't get as fair or accurate picture.

Covid is very real, and I don't think it should be ignored - but by the same token I feel the current approach is the worst of both deals - we are crippling certain sectors of the economy whilst not really slowing the spread (Families are still going shopping multiple times per week, kids are still going to school, factories are still going etc). All whilst Amazon makes billions.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sometimes the ears aren't deaf, they're just sitting on the head of someone who wants to get on a plane and fly somewhere. Nothing else matters.:nod:

Someone will be along shortly to say X number of people are killed by cars and we don't stop driving. Haven't heard that one for a while.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unfortunately it's not either of those articles. As you've quoted an article directly, you should link to source printer.

Edit - just downloaded the pdf, and that would be the source.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Definitely a lack of transparency on figures. NHS does have capacity limits, equipment and, especially staff. It would be helpful for those to be spelt out, and then the potential hospitalization projections depending on different scenarios. Compare for example: a) minimal measures ("August") b) partial lockdown ("November") and c) full lockdown ("April"). The mortality rates are bei f projected, and are being considered against the economic impact (again, projected)...it's just that none of this information is being shared.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not even if it is?

It's hard to judge not having lived there for 16 years but the no beds and people in corridors were always isolated incidents dotted around. Perhaps that was preferable to the cancelling of many procedures which are common now.

Just the other day there was something about five million fewer hip/knee replacements and cataract removals up to August. Just imagine the number of people in corridors had they gone ahead :ohmy:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I heard the term "prevention paradox" the other day. This is the paradox that preventing a disaster ends up confirming the suspicions of doubters that the possibility of disaster has been exaggerated.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If it is the reason it should be - But I feel that the NHS has been underfunded(and overcharged) for many years and every winter has been barely scraping through, cancelling operations etc. (realise more would have been cancelled this year, as they need to keep additional spare capacity). Im sure i read of a report showed that something like 95% of NHS trusts were having to bring in and use additional beds above standard hospital capacity in the month of March 2019, and whilst the numbers dropped through the spring, the vast majority of trusts were using extra beds and temporary nurses for several months. So for the government to blame it being at near capacity this year because of covid seems like stretching the truth to me, they are always at near capacity or even over capacity due to not enough funding and awarding contracts to mates of MP's that then inflate prices by 500%.

Its no different to the government blaming yesterdays spike on everyone going the pub on the night it had to close - whilst it may have caused the spike, any one with half a brain could see that was going to happen - so why allow a 10pm curfew and not bring in a couple of restrictions through the week (I.E no drinks only tables after the Sunday night, no walk in meals after 8pm Tuesday, restaurants can stay open until 8pm Thursday to honour already booked meals)

I have no issue with lock down itself, I personally think the boundaries need changing but realise that wherever you set the laws and the limits there will be some ridiculous oddity within them (you can work refitting a flat with your colleague all day, drive back to your hotel in the same works van but then have to eat on separate tables in the pub in the evening and have separate rooms), but the current approach of keeping factories open, schools open, allowing shops that sell largely tat to stay open etc. is flawed in my opinion as it isn't slowing the spread as quick as it could be, but is crippling businesses. At the end of my road every day there must be 100 cars picking kids up from school, all out of the cars talking, kids running round playing etc. is just a breeding ground for the virus - but this is just extending the lockdown for those businesses that have had to shut.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There's no perfect solution. Pub times could probably have been designed better. Much of the restrcitions are aimed at reducing viral load that build up in individuals. So yes, parents chatting at the school gate is inappropriate, but it's better than the same parents having various meet-ups throughout the day. Separate tables reduces the dining capacity of the venue, and also makes transmission between the two individuals less likely when not wearing masks. As Tesco likes to say, Every Little Helps...(to reduce the R number).

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't disagree with anything you said there. I just get an impression that the problems are a little more present now than pre-covid and if all those operations that would otherwise have gone ahead rather than cancelled, the true picture really would have been seen.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The source was linked and you found it?????

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hospitalizations are up 60% in BC since last Thursday.

Hopefully the restrictions in the LM will slow it down a bit.

Not as bad in the interior but still growing. I wonder how many COVID patients Kelowna hospital can handle, so far they only have 1 which is good.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was simply replying to your statement:
For those that see "a bit of death" as a necessary hardship to keep the economy open, I wonder how high the deaths can be. We're at 50K in the UK, many seem untroubled by it
Obviously many are also untroubled by other high death counts, such as the one i highlighted. It's not infectious but it is, for most, preventable yet we seem to struggle to do just that yet the population as a whole accepts this fact. Smoking is a well known problem with serious health issues and massive costs to NHS treating all the various diseases that go with it and again huge death tolls due to lung cancer and other issues that are again to some extent preventable. Both of the above may not be infectious but if you are in one of the above groups your chances of surviving COVID are not as good as a healthy person.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just mentioned on the news, when the pandemic was declared 8 months ago in March, it was on the last Friday 13th.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well yes, but I didn't click it initially since you have to download the file to view it and not something I'm keen to do often.

I always check links to pdf's before I post them and would never post a link to a pdf that is dodgy.. just to put your mind at ease.. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Mmmm, swipe right...

:sneaky:

Re: Coronavirus
 

A 30 something man died this week in BC, appears to have died in his sleep overnight. No mention of being hospitalized.

https://www.tricitynews.com/news/you...ers-1.24239213

Re: Coronavirus
 

:lol:

Re: Coronavirus
 

ICU's in Saskatoon so full they are having to send patients to other facilities.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Was bound to happen at some point. A school in Surrey, BC has been ordered to close due to an outbreak. 7 people infected so far, school to remain closed at least until the end of November. One of the 7 is a music teacher who is in ICU.

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/11...d-19-outbreak/

Re: Coronavirus
 

Normal life back next winter :fingerscrossed:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54949799

Re: Coronavirus
 

Next winter is a long time to wait.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Could be longer too, we just wont know til enough people are vaccinated.

Re: Coronavirus
 

More good news this morning. Thank you Mr Trump.

A US-developed vaccine has been shown to be 94.5% effective at protecting people from COVID-19, according to interim results.

Produced by Moderna, in collaboration with the US government's "Operation Warp Speed", the vaccine has also been shown to last for up to 30 days in household fridges and at room temperature for up to 12 hours.

It also remains stable at -20C, equal to most household or medical freezers, for up to six months.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...lysis-12133893

Re: Coronavirus
 

Suggesting that by Spring there could be enough people treated to make a difference. Those who do get it after being inoculated seem to just a mild version.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Moderna hopes to produce between 500 million to 1 billion doses in 2021, but they can't produce beyond that in a year due to manufacturing constraints.

I wonder how good people will be with going back to get their 2nd dose?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hamilton has now gone to the RED Alert Zone (one down from emergency shutdown) - higher restrictions in place..

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not enough for everybody to get one dose.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's obviously going to be a multiple year process to vaccinate the world.

Also seems to be the question of how long will the vaccines provide protection for? Life, 1 year? 2 years?

Is there any way to know the length of protection in a vaccine only been tested for a few months?

Re: Coronavirus
 

IMHO - Anyone who hasn't had their normal childhood vaccinations (chickenpox, measles etc) should not be allowed the COVID jab until everything else is up to date.

Additionally, flat earthers should also be denied this vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I never had chicken pox vaccine, but then it didn't exist in my childhood. :lol: (well technically it did since I was a teenager when it became available in the US, but I had chicken pox in 1985 or 1986 so I didn't need the vaccine.)

I had measles and such, just can't prove it since my parents lost the records with time, and I would imagine there are others like me who were vaccinated but just can't prove it, so that would then cause troubles, and put more strain on the system as people would then have to go be vaccinated against those first, doesn't seem very feasible really.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There weren't any childhood vaccinations when I was growing up - apart from polio vaccine on a sugar lump - so I shouldn't be allowed it then, according to you - yet I am in several of the high risk categories.

I have had measles, german measles, chicken pox, mumps (twice), scarlet fever, scarletina, whooping cough and dozens of bouts of what they now call 'strep throat' ROFL ... how DID I survive!!!

:blah: :hysterical:

Re: Coronavirus
 

My comments were mainly directed at parents who refuse to vaccinate their children, aka anti-vaxxers. Not for people who can't find their vaccination certificate from the 80's.

Having said that, If adults have gone to the trouble to book a COVID jab and already have their sleeves rolled up, there is no harm in getting a few more extra jabs at the same time.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exactly the wonderful thing about those vaccines that weren’t available during your childhood is that they are available now

last week I got my Tdap done because dr and I weren’t sure if my tetanus was up to date . Last year I got the MMR because it wasn’t available to me in childhood and I was concerned about local measles outbreak

if you are high risk enough to be first in line for Covid vaccine then you should definitely be up to date on all the others

as for the “ well how did I survive , lol!!! Argument, the point is a hell of people didn’t !!! 1 inn6 people will survive a game of Russian roulette, that’s a lousy argument in favour of playing it”

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was just trying to be lighthearted.... ;)

Like I said I have all the childhood ones except chicken pox but I had the chicken pox so by the time the vaccine was available, I was not in need of it.

I've asked doctors over the years if I should redo the childhood vaccines since I lack records, but they have said that unless I need proof, and I know I was vaccinated, no need to redo them.

The ones they can do titer tests for I did have those done, and immunity was confirmed for those.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Over the last 3 days (BC doesn't report on weekends, so last update was Friday afternoon) 1,959 new cases, and 9 deaths.

654 cases from Friday to Saturday while 659 cases were reported from Saturday to Sunday, and 646 from Sunday to Monday. (previous daily high was 617)

Record high of 181 in hospital, 57 in ICU, highest ICU count since April.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7466206/b...e-november-16/
(+455) cases in the Vancouver Coastal Health region

(+1361) cases in the Fraser Health region

(+87) cases in the Interior Health region

(+41) cases in the Island Health region

(+14) cases in the Northern Health region

(+1) cases of people who reside outside of Canada

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm not necessarily high risk but I will want to get the vaccine ASAP as i'm sure it will be required for quarantine and test free travel.

If they offered an incentive for getting the jab (ie if you get the jab, no need to wear a mask if you carry your OHIP card saying you got it, etc) i'm sure you'd have most of the population jabbed up in no time.

*Obviously I know the research on the vaccine and whether it prevents spread will render this impossible but it's a nice thought.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why would anyone get vaccinated against diseases they have already had? (there will be countless numbers of people like myself.. 'my Generation', - hate to admit it but I was born many years before the 80's! LOL)

Not everyone who hasn't had their child vaccinated are anti vaxxers though. For example, when my son was a baby he had the first shot of 3 in 1 and had a very bad reaction - his skin looked like leather\and he developed chronic allergies requiring daily medication for 9 years, caused by the triple vaccine and a hereditary reactive gene according to both the paediatrician and the top specialist we saw. Both of them told me that he shouldn't have the '3 in 1' Measles, Mumps. Rubella' vaccine as we have asthma and allergies in the family!
To put your mind at ease he did have them as separate innoculations at a later date, but the vaccination record wouldn't be approved of now, because it wasn't up to 'standard' - and it would be impossible to obtain a copy of, as we lived in Hong Kong at the time.
:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

The idea of immunization is to protect against illness caused by infection with micro-organisms . If people turning up for the COVID shot cannot prove evidence of immunity, what's the big deal of having another shot? Like I said, if I was in charge I would implement this rule mainly for the children of anti-vaxxers. But an anti-vaxxer turning up for a COVID shot is a complete oxymoron anyway. We shall see if they are selective anti-vaxxers.

I'd probably let off old fogeys like you :lol:

Re: Coronavirus
 

See...Trump was almost right.

Mouthwash can kill coronavirus within 30 seconds.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...snt-sf-twitter