dbd33

I've never had one, never been asked. I guess I must go to the wrong sorts of places, that or I'm an example of Canada's failed vaccine roll out.

Paul_Shepherd

My earlier post stated not being able to do a lot more than not go to the gym, even though I think that is just as important as avioiding covid for a persons health. At present its any social event that is off the table, being social is huge part if who I am and many other people out there, its part of their mental well being. Sometimes I don't see another person for a week, I am still working at home and I hate it, it drives me nuts! I couldn't travel to attend a funeral that was extremely important to me. I have since spoke to my sister in the UK, and she and my nephew had covid, following the funeral, so I am pretty sure I would have been stranded there due to border restrictions, albeit not how I initially thought... just a possible extra 10 days.... which is bad enough.

When I say protect the vunerable, there are steps people can take to do this... for example rapid tests, they should be made more easily available, so they can be used to test yourself before coming into close contact with the vunerable, if you have been out in the open world. A friend of mine does this with his elderly mom.

We have to live along side this, we just can't carry on like this. In essence what you seem to be saying is that we should carry on with these restrictions indefinitely? That is just not a sustainable plan... maybe for some who lock themselves away and don't go any where, but for the majority of people the last 2 years have not been a normal way of life.

The majority have done what's been asked of them, now is the time to move forward and try and find some sort of post covid normalcy again.

BristolUK

Source please.

That was not the case the last time we discussed it. The last study that a lot of people seized on confirmed there was a level of protection from getting it and recovering, but not for those that didn't recover or got long covid.

Has there been something since? Remember your words as bolded. Perhaps you meant natural immunity after recovering and being vaccinated.

BristolUK

Yes, but past tense, no?

Things have changed so when you ask "what is the alternative?" that means now, rather than than then. So what is it you are unable to now?
Is it? You can't go to a restaurant or bar?

It's my understanding that from tomorrow Ontario is

• Increasing social gathering limits to 50 people indoors and 100 people outdoors.
• Removing capacity limits at places like Restaurants, bars and other food or drink establishments without dance facilities, Cinemas, Meeting and event spaces, including conference centres or convention centres, Casinos, bingo halls and other gaming establishments

So that means that you can currently have social gatherings, go to restaurants, bars, cinema etc.
How does that prevent my stepdaughter coming home from work daily with the virus? If she's been exposed and infected it could be days before anything shows up on a test and it's too late by then.

What do we do, tell her she has to move out?

I don't know why you keep saying this. There are barely any restrictions left and those left are shortly to be removed.
For Ontario there's another big step in a couple of weeks.

I'm happy for measures to be eased, just not too much too soon, like the UK.

Almost Canadian

No. The data from the CDC ranks protection as follows:

1) Those with the vaccine that had been infected;
2) Those without the vaccine that had been infected; and
3) Those with the vaccine that had not been infected.

There was very little difference between 1 and 2 and a little more difference between those and 3. However, the main reason why boosters have become required is because of the waning effect of the vaccines. Natural immunity wanes too, but not as quickly as the immunity provided by the vaccine. Of course, one has to survive being unvaccinated and infected but amounts of deaths when compared to the amount of infections shows that, in essence, it is the old and the infirm that succomb as can be seen from the current deaths by those that have been vaccinated.

bats

Not sure what you mean by this?

The restrictions in England ( no knowledge of the other UK countries) were stricter than those in Ontario. At one stage people were only allowed out if the house for an hour a day, no travelling, must use the nearest supermarket. Considering how much you've talked against the travel quarantine I'm surprised to hear you praising this set up

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OrangeMango

You're most likely correct in your statement. I actually meant the restrictions at the border, entry requirements etc...

I think Canada is going too far to still require tests for vaccinated Canadians.

BristolUK

So you did mean being being vaccinated and recovered from infection then.

You're probably referring to this which I found more easily on ABC than CDC
Note that it says a prior infection, so that makes it followed by vaccination.

So your doctor who "has had, and recovered from, the virus and, as a result of that, believes that there is no benefit to him having the vaccine" is wrong according to the information you are referencing. Are you going to tell him that the CDC says there is a benefit to him adding the protection of the vaccine?
From the same link about CDC findings.
That appears to be saying that after Delta, prior infection became slightly better than vaccination but it makes the point that prior infections would have included those more recent whereas prior vaccinations would have been less recent and therefore subject to waning over a longer perod. That's not the same as one wearing off more quickly than the other it's saying that more time had elapsed since last jabs than last infections.

Also
So maybe not as definitive as you suggested.

And finally...

Almost Canadian

No. I know what it says and I am happy with my interpretation of it, just as I am confident that you are happy with your interpretation of the data too.

No. He is acutely aware of the data himself and, as he is my neighbour, I know what he thinks about this which is, in essence, the benefit that he would gain would be outweighed by the side affects he could experience (he is elderly and has a dicky ticker).

None of that changes my view and I suspect that, as more and more data emerges, the narrative that "the only way to protect yourself is to get vaccinated" will change too, particularly if the science is actually put front and centre.

Almost Canadian

Not really. The compromised in your household could wear respirators and, if they feel the urge to, full Nuclear, Biological and Chemical suits too. I am sure you will state that this would be inconvenient, but what price must be paid for safety?

BristolUK

I'm not surprised your view doesn't change.
When the CDC describes it as "vaccination is still the safest way to protect oneself" (their actual statement) and you misrepresent it as "the only way to protect yourself is to get vaccinated" (your version of the narrative) hopefully this tells others to take what you say with a pinch of salt or at least double check your claims.

Almost Canadian

I have never stated that the CDC said anything. I merely pointed to the CDC's data.

I doubt that anyone that has listened to politicians in Canada since the time that vaccines became available would seriously argue that Canadian society has been told, repeatedly, what I stated above. Once again, you are using your usual tactics of putting words into my mouth. You will, likely, turn to your other tactic of accusing me of "wriggling" next.

BristolUK

You mean the words you actually used in your posts. In the order I quoted them. With links to where you used them.

Dear me. Those words are there for all to see.

Paul_Shepherd

Yes.....past tense... up until what is about to change today and in the next couple of weeks, with lifting of some of these restrictions. Its been a long time to have these latest ones imposed upon us.... well feels like it,
I haveb't been to local pub in months, I tried twice to get in, 50% capacity couldn't get in

I understand your situation with your step daughter that is a tricky one, but in the same token you must see that we cant be locked down for ever, things are easing now at last, hopefully this is the light at the end of the tunnel we have all been waiting form and not just another false hope, if there is another variant, I hope its even weaker and even less threatening than omicron, so that we don't have impose restrictions again. If the pattern of previous pandemics are anythng to go by, it will be. They sau that there are still variants of the Spanish flu around today, I think that will be same with Covid, its never going to go away, it will just be at a threat level we can live along side without locking down anymore. Heres hoping!!

Shard

The way they forecast virus risk is not by looking at past numbers. They look at the level of immunity in the population and the transmissibility of whatever variant is circulating. Immunity depends on vaccination and natural antibodies. Immunity wanes over time, but that too is something which is being studied. It will be interesting to find out whether a fourth booster will be required.