Coronavirus
#5986
Re: Coronavirus
I read it but it appears that the point I am trying to make is either flying way above your head, or you are not willing to answer. Either way, I suggest we leave it there.
#5987
Re: Coronavirus
I'm always willing to answer. Whatever point you're trying to make is very difficult to discern. My impression is that your thinking on this is rather muddled, and I am attempting to understand it and see where the confusion lies.
#5988
Re: Coronavirus
#5989
Re: Coronavirus
#5990
Re: Coronavirus
I'll repeat : Are you able to provide any logical reason why jurisdictions should treat those with vaccinations and those unvaxxed, but infected, differently?
I have highlighted the important bit. I understand your argument regarding vaxxed v unvaxxed. I am asking to confirm why the vaxxed, and the unvaxxed but infected, should be treated differently.
#5991
Re: Coronavirus
OK. Here goes
I'll repeat : Are you able to provide any logical reason why jurisdictions should treat those with vaccinations and those unvaxxed, but infected, differently?
I have highlighted the important bit. I understand your argument regarding vaxxed v unvaxxed. I am asking to confirm why the vaxxed, and the unvaxxed but infected, should be treated differently.
I'll repeat : Are you able to provide any logical reason why jurisdictions should treat those with vaccinations and those unvaxxed, but infected, differently?
I have highlighted the important bit. I understand your argument regarding vaxxed v unvaxxed. I am asking to confirm why the vaxxed, and the unvaxxed but infected, should be treated differently.
#5992
Re: Coronavirus
Infected and recovered.
#5993
Re: Coronavirus
So the question is why treat this unvaxxed group differently from the vaccinated group ?
First, because this group is a subset the the unvaxxed population as whole. A lucky subset (recovered, and with some level of immunnity). By treating their immunity as equiavelent to vaccine immunity it sends a signal to the entire unvaxxed population (infected and not infected) that there is an alternative means to deal with the virus. We know on a population level that this simply is not the case. Some of the not infected will take false comfort in their ability to survive the virus and not be so lucky.
Second, because in practice it is harder to maintain and confirm natural immunity than vaccinated immunity. The antibodies that are produced under both scenaros weaken over time. Someone on the vaccination track gets a booster, what does an unvaxxed person do, re-infect themselves with a dangerous virus ? Is the testing to prove the unvaxxed immunity reliable?
In short, the vaccinated population have higher and more reliable immunity than the unvaccinated population. A pandemic is a population level health concern, it is transmissable, and in the case of a virus, adaptable. Solutions need to be applied at the population level (hence considering the entire unvaxxed group rather than the unvaxxed infected recovered subset).
First, because this group is a subset the the unvaxxed population as whole. A lucky subset (recovered, and with some level of immunnity). By treating their immunity as equiavelent to vaccine immunity it sends a signal to the entire unvaxxed population (infected and not infected) that there is an alternative means to deal with the virus. We know on a population level that this simply is not the case. Some of the not infected will take false comfort in their ability to survive the virus and not be so lucky.
Second, because in practice it is harder to maintain and confirm natural immunity than vaccinated immunity. The antibodies that are produced under both scenaros weaken over time. Someone on the vaccination track gets a booster, what does an unvaxxed person do, re-infect themselves with a dangerous virus ? Is the testing to prove the unvaxxed immunity reliable?
In short, the vaccinated population have higher and more reliable immunity than the unvaccinated population. A pandemic is a population level health concern, it is transmissable, and in the case of a virus, adaptable. Solutions need to be applied at the population level (hence considering the entire unvaxxed group rather than the unvaxxed infected recovered subset).
#5994
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 761
Re: Coronavirus
However, if this is a competition in linking charlatans and people whose brains have been destroyed by drug abuse, here is another contribution: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...box=1643206847
#5995
Re: Coronavirus
Then why not provide the primary source?
However, if this is a competition in linking charlatans and people whose brains have been destroyed by drug abuse, here is another contribution: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...box=1643206847
However, if this is a competition in linking charlatans and people whose brains have been destroyed by drug abuse, here is another contribution: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...box=1643206847
At least Neil Young is on the right page
#5996
Re: Coronavirus
So the question is why treat this unvaxxed group differently from the vaccinated group ?
First, because this group is a subset the the unvaxxed population as whole. A lucky subset (recovered, and with some level of immunnity). By treating their immunity as equiavelent to vaccine immunity it sends a signal to the entire unvaxxed population (infected and not infected) that there is an alternative means to deal with the virus. We know on a population level that this simply is not the case. Some of the not infected will take false comfort in their ability to survive the virus and not be so lucky.
First, because this group is a subset the the unvaxxed population as whole. A lucky subset (recovered, and with some level of immunnity). By treating their immunity as equiavelent to vaccine immunity it sends a signal to the entire unvaxxed population (infected and not infected) that there is an alternative means to deal with the virus. We know on a population level that this simply is not the case. Some of the not infected will take false comfort in their ability to survive the virus and not be so lucky.
Second, because in practice it is harder to maintain and confirm natural immunity than vaccinated immunity. The antibodies that are produced under both scenaros weaken over time. Someone on the vaccination track gets a booster, what does an unvaxxed person do, re-infect themselves with a dangerous virus ? Is the testing to prove the unvaxxed immunity reliable?
In short, the vaccinated population have higher and more reliable immunity than the unvaccinated population. A pandemic is a population level health concern, it is transmissable, and in the case of a virus, adaptable. Solutions need to be applied at the population level (hence considering the entire unvaxxed group rather than the unvaxxed infected recovered subset).
In any event, this is becoming a moot point as I note that restrictions in England are being lifted and I do not foresee that it will be too long before other jurisdictions follow suit.
#5997
Re: Coronavirus
The scientific data supports such an assertion. Why do you find it so difficult to admit that?
This could easily be dealt with by the unvaxxed/infected/recovered having to provide whatever documentation the jurisdictions require, just as the vaccinated have to.
I find this bizarre. The unvaxxed/infected/recovered are, essentially, the same as the vaxxed. If it is possible to treat the vaxxed and unvaxxed differently, why should there be any reason not to treat the unvaxxed and unvaxxed/infected/recovered differently?
In any event, this is becoming a moot point as I note that restrictions in England are being lifted and I do not foresee that it will be too long before other jurisdictions follow suit.
This could easily be dealt with by the unvaxxed/infected/recovered having to provide whatever documentation the jurisdictions require, just as the vaccinated have to.
I find this bizarre. The unvaxxed/infected/recovered are, essentially, the same as the vaxxed. If it is possible to treat the vaxxed and unvaxxed differently, why should there be any reason not to treat the unvaxxed and unvaxxed/infected/recovered differently?
In any event, this is becoming a moot point as I note that restrictions in England are being lifted and I do not foresee that it will be too long before other jurisdictions follow suit.
Indeed, proof of "Covid recovered" (a PCR test evidencing antibodies) could be presented in lieu of vaccination. I did not say it couldn't. You asked for logical reasons regarding different treatment, and I suggested that such a tests based approach would be "harder". At what schedule would tests be taken? If someone was asymptomatic and therefore did not take a test (despite being infected) this would be impact the integrity of the system. Do you not agree that a test based system is inferior to a vaccination system. Proof of vaccination is straightforward; proof of immunity through testing is not.
Nothing bizarre here. I've explained at length why the unvaxxed pose a threat, and why it's preferable to differentiate. I think you are focussed on one very narrow aspect of the recovered unvaxxed, and disregard the wider implications of accepting that aspect as equivalent to population vaccination.
#5998
Re: Coronavirus
Some wise person said this back on January 1st (and many times previously)
Lifting England Covid rules while 3bn people unvaccinated reckless – experts
Better late than never I suppose.
...what bothers me most - and nobody seems to address this when I mention it - is from day one we were told there would be variants as the virus spreads. We have seen this come true. And now, apparently, we are somewhere between "not worrying" about Omicron and even encouraging its spread because it's like a cold.
How do we know that while it's spreading even more quickly that it's not mutating (and at a faster rate than others)? All the others have so why are we excluding that possibility for this one?
How do we know that while it's spreading even more quickly that it's not mutating (and at a faster rate than others)? All the others have so why are we excluding that possibility for this one?
...more than 300 leading scientists, health experts and academics have said failure to take sufficient action to boost vaccination levels worldwide means it is more likely new variants will put thousands of lives at risk across the UK.
#5999
Re: Coronavirus
Some wise person said this back on January 1st (and many times previously)
Lifting England Covid rules while 3bn people unvaccinated reckless – experts
Better late than never I suppose.
Lifting England Covid rules while 3bn people unvaccinated reckless – experts
Better late than never I suppose.
#6000
Re: Coronavirus
Aren't case numbers falling because A) fewer people are being tested and B) those that are tested are relied upon to report the positive tests and are not doing so?
The UK daily Death total remains high. We're just coming to the end of a two week circuit breaker. The only numbers that can be compared with any accuracy (because of the testing/reporting issue) are the hospital and death numbers.
What was it, 2 or 3 weeks ago I posted that NB had seen 18 deaths in 6 days and that had doubled the number we saw throughout 2020? An average of 3 per day.
Since then, daily new deaths continue to be between 3 and 6. That's not going down.
I know we're the province with most older people (%) and possibly most unhealthy too. It seems reasonable to assume that's why the death rate (pop) here is so high - still third in Canada I'm hearing. But if this was not happening in 2020 and a large chunk of 2021 but now it is I can't see any other conclusion than Omicron spreads so fast that it infects so many people that even a low % of people so adversely affected is a high number of people.