Coronavirus

Old Jan 11th 2022, 9:10 am
  #5836  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Danny B
Unvaccinated Quebecers without medical exemptions will have to pay if they don't get 1st dose soon

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ebec-1.6311054
Very slippery slope and I cannot see it surviving a legal challenge.
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Old Jan 11th 2022, 11:51 am
  #5837  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Danny B
Unvaccinated Quebecers without medical exemptions will have to pay if they don't get 1st dose soon

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ebec-1.6311054

Oh that's so wrong for many reasons. It smacks of insurance that won't cover pre existing conditions, or paying more if you have a genetic predisposition to certain illnesses. What about charging more for those who do dangerous sports, or ski, or ride horses, or smoke, or drink? No, it's completely against the notion of equal access to health care.
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Old Jan 11th 2022, 2:30 pm
  #5838  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by bats
Oh that's so wrong for many reasons. It smacks of insurance that won't cover pre existing conditions, or paying more if you have a genetic predisposition to certain illnesses. What about charging more for those who do dangerous sports, or ski, or ride horses, or smoke, or drink? No, it's completely against the notion of equal access to health care.
Indeed. Smacks, smacks, smacks! Stupidity is a rather preexisting condition.

P.S. They do charge extra taxes for smoking and drinking.
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Old Jan 11th 2022, 3:01 pm
  #5839  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Tirytory
That soundtrack used to give me the heebie jeebies when I was a kid.
In that case I prescribe Jesus Christ Superstar
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Old Jan 11th 2022, 3:03 pm
  #5840  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by bats
Oh that's so wrong for many reasons. It smacks of insurance that won't cover pre existing conditions, or paying more if you have a genetic predisposition to certain illnesses. What about charging more for those who do dangerous sports, or ski, or ride horses, or smoke, or drink? No, it's completely against the notion of equal access to health care.
A distinction can be drawn on infectious disease. I believe Singapore is doing something similar.
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Old Jan 11th 2022, 5:03 pm
  #5841  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
Indeed. Smacks, smacks, smacks! Stupidity is a rather preexisting condition.

P.S. They do charge extra taxes for smoking and drinking.
. On a purchase, there's no healthcare supplement/ penalty.

Originally Posted by Shard
A distinction can be drawn on infectious disease. I believe Singapore is doing something similar.
Healthcare and making moral judgments should be incompatible.

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Old Jan 11th 2022, 9:45 pm
  #5842  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by bats
. On a purchase, there's no healthcare supplement/ penalty.


Healthcare and making moral judgments should be incompatible.
It's not so much a moral judgement as an economic one. Were healthcare systems to have unlimited resources (including staff) it would not be an issue.
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Old Jan 11th 2022, 11:01 pm
  #5843  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Tirytory
That soundtrack used to give me the heebie jeebies when I was a kid.
Lol... yeah it would do that. last time I listened to it we were around a camp fire in the middle of a forest.... of course a few drinks were involved.... that was quite a a heeby jeeby expreience - perfect!
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Old Jan 11th 2022, 11:17 pm
  #5844  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

I suspect this tax is a knee-jerk reaction by the QC government to force people to get vaccinated. Asking nicely isn't working. Bringing back the curfew on New Year's Eve was another such reaction.

I would not be surprised if Arruda has been made a fall guy for the recent string of cock ups. He's been doing a good job for the last two years, is highly respected and very popular in QC. Very much a poster boy. He wasn't calling the shots though. Things have gone awry and someone has to take the blame. It's also possible that he's had enough.
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Old Jan 11th 2022, 11:22 pm
  #5845  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by bats
. On a purchase, there's no healthcare supplement/ penalty.


Healthcare and making moral judgments should be incompatible.
This is different though....I am going to offer another perspective. I don't necessarily think a tax is the right approach, but something needs to be done.

Smoking or drinking health related issues don't cause hospital capacity issues, it doesn't ruin people business's and take their jobs through having to lockdown.... we are all paying the price for people choosing not to be vaccinated. 50% of all hospitalisations with covid now are unvaccinated people,.... why should a cancer patient miss out on life saving surgery because someone made the choice not to be vaccinated. They call it pro choice... I have no problem with that....but if they get sick, then that was their choice, A cancer sufferer doesn't get to make that choice... (except maybe a heavy smoker but thats only a fraction of cases), life saving surgeries are being cancelled and people are dying, thats not fair is it? you see what I mean?

The vaccine obviously works... so let it do its job in keeping people out of hospitals
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Old Jan 11th 2022, 11:27 pm
  #5846  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd
This is different though....I am going to offer another perspective. I don't necessarily think a tax is the right approach, but something needs to be done.

Smoking or drinking health related issues don't cause hospital capacity issues, it doesn't ruin people business's and take their jobs through having to lockdown.... we are all paying the price for people choosing not to be vaccinated. 50% of all hospitalisations with covid now are unvaccinated people,.... why should a cancer patient miss out on life saving surgery because someone made the choice not to be vaccinated. They call it pro choice... I have no problem with that....but if they get sick, then that was their choice, A cancer sufferer doesn't get to make that choice... (except maybe a heavy smoker but thats only a fraction of cases), life saving surgeries are being cancelled and people are dying, thats not fair is it? you see what I mean?

The vaccine obviously works... so let it do its job in keeping people out of hospitals

Well yes, something should be done to protect the innocent from the unvaccinated. Maybe send them to Australia?
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Old Jan 11th 2022, 11:44 pm
  #5847  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

A couple of weeks ago the QC government introduced a requirement for vax passports to be shown at the govt-run booze and pot stores. The number of people booking first appointments shot up instantly.
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Old Jan 12th 2022, 12:27 am
  #5848  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by bats
. On a purchase, there's no healthcare supplement/ penalty.


Healthcare and making moral judgments should be incompatible.
Facts beg to differ. Higher taxes on cigarettes and alcohol are there because of negative impacts on health. So says the government. These taxes are jacked up using Health Canada recommendations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cig...pott-1.4410518

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/new-...dget-1.5393362

I think the case of cigarette taxes helping public healthcare isn’t as strong though. In the case of Covid vaccination we have a public health emergency, the system isn’t coping, so the logic is more obvious and sound.
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Old Jan 12th 2022, 12:54 am
  #5849  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Doubt they’ll get it enforced in QC. But in the meantime the thought of an extra tax will probably have enough impact to push over the line the “I’m not an antivaxer, just hesitant” people.
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Old Jan 12th 2022, 1:44 am
  #5850  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd
This is different though....I am going to offer another perspective. I don't necessarily think a tax is the right approach, but something needs to be done.

Smoking or drinking health related issues don't cause hospital capacity issues, it doesn't ruin people business's and take their jobs through having to lockdown.... we are all paying the price for people choosing not to be vaccinated. 50% of all hospitalisations with covid now are unvaccinated people,.... why should a cancer patient miss out on life saving surgery because someone made the choice not to be vaccinated. They call it pro choice... I have no problem with that....but if they get sick, then that was their choice, A cancer sufferer doesn't get to make that choice... (except maybe a heavy smoker but thats only a fraction of cases), life saving surgeries are being cancelled and people are dying, thats not fair is it? you see what I mean?

The vaccine obviously works... so let it do its job in keeping people out of hospitals
How you explain the number of vaccinated in hospital then? In Alberta, the split is almost 2/3 1/3 of vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospital and 82%/18% of new cases between vaccinated and unvaccinated (and, yes, I fully understand the argument that the numbers are skewed by the percentages of the population that are vaccinated/unvaccinated). See here: COVID-19 Alberta statistics | alberta.ca

However, if we are looking at where the burden falls that is placing the healthcare system under stress, it is not upon the unvaccinated.

You will have to explain to me how, if I have understood Quebec's proposal correctly, that taxing all unvaccinated is correct? For example, why should an unvaccinated person, that has not caught C-19, nor has had to use the medical system for anything related to C-19, have to pay a punishment tax?

If jurisdictions wish to make vaccination compulsory, enact that and be prepared to fight the likely legal battles that will come.

Last edited by Almost Canadian; Jan 12th 2022 at 1:50 am.
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